Comments on: Brandon Vera Makes His Case

By: C-Bus Allstar

C-Bus Allstar — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:30:35 +0000

@ Warcraft, go back to slaying demons and amassing enough gold for your epic mount, because you obviously know nothing about MMA.

Defense IS NOT, and I REPEAT, IS NOT fighting back. Defense is all about avoiding damage. And that’s exactly what Vera was doing.

By: shutupandfight

shutupandfight — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:03:51 +0000

i got a lot of respect for both fighters and was kind of pulling for Vera…but if it were a real fight (street/bar/whatever) Vero was dead meat…he fuked up by not defending against the mount attempt.

on the other hand it wasn’t a street fight…Vero knew was he was doing.

gotta go with bad call…Vera was defending…was not hurt…and Werdum wasn’t really landing shit for power. Vera said he couln’t escape…but he said that knowing the round was nearing it’s end. if forced to he may have come up with an escape or submission eventually…fuk who knows…big let down though fer sure.

i wonder what the ref has to say.

By: Warcraft

Warcraft — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:39:59 +0000

Ok if Vera was dominating the standup why couldn’t he keep it there and KO Werdum then?
I saw Vera drop a few knees but Werdum is strong and just got the clinch and overpowered Vera on the ground. Even if there was a round 2 I could see Werdum getting the mount easily again.

Looked like a ok stoppage. Vera just accepted that mount and didn’t even try to escape. I saw him squirming under Werdum and just hoping he didn’t break his face somewhere. I don’t care if he was telling the ref he loved the punches it will still get stopped. Defense means you fight back and Vera wasn’t case closed.

By: Kaleb

Kaleb — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:58:53 +0000

Vera was winning,
Werdum was doing nothing for 4 minutes
1 minute left,
he mounts . . .

4 > 1. nough said.

By: C-Bus Allstar

C-Bus Allstar — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:20:08 +0000

Ben.. were you watching the same fight as me?

“Brandon Vera, you were not winning that fight. Werdum was controlling you and systematically taking you apart.”

???

Are you mental? Did you even WATCH the fight?

Although, everything after that part I agree with you 100%. Maybe you should just like.. re-write that sentence, because it is REALLY taking away from the credibility of your argument.

Vera was dominating that entire fight right up until he got mounted. And even then he WAS intelligently defending himself. He was blocking, moving, rolling, everything except throwing punches from the bottom (which we all know is absolutely suicide). I don’t see how he could have defended himself more intelligently. AND THAT’S NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT HE TOLD DAN MIRAGLIOTTA THAT HE WAS OK 3 FUCKING TIMES.

I think this ref just needs his fucking license revoked and Vera deserves a re-match.

By: VEe

VEe — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:30:35 +0000

Unfortunately this issue will happen again and again until a body of promoters, fighters, coaches and sports medical physicians agree and decide to review the rules governing an MMA match.

Ben, you’re absolutely correct. Intelligently defending yourself is open to broad interpretation. But it is open to the sole discretion of the referee. With regards to the Ferguson-Thompson match, the referee allowed Kimbo to survive because he believed the blows were not doing damage. Kimbo was pinned into the cage. Vera was mounted and did not get the benefit of the doubt.

Bashing the referee does not solve anything. It will eventually take figures like Dana White, Gary Shaw, etc. to help get the rules changed. But unfortunately Dana White is still in the battle to get the sport legalized.

So I don’t expect these questionable stoppages (or no-calls) to stop any time soon. In the mean time, “Protect yourself at all times.” And keep the fight standing if possible, especially against BJJ experts.

By: martymarta

martymarta — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:09:58 +0000

This is definitely one of the more interesting topics as of late. Initially I thought that the solution was that once you have been mounted, regardless of how good your opponent’s jiu jitsu is, you should still be trying to buck and roll. Your chances of landing in an armbar or getting your back taken are high, but I’ve seen plenty of fights that have had rounds end with 1min straight of failed rear naked choke attempts. As a fighter, you should never want to leave the fight in the hands of the ref or the judges. In my oppinion, taking punches from mount does this, but it’s hard to mistake whether a guy/girl submits.
The other point I’d like to make is: Did Vera know how much time was left? If so, should it be a legitimate strategy to do basically what he did and count on getting saved by the bell?

By: Mondooh 3:17

Mondooh 3:17 — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:41:41 +0000

uhhmmm long time MMA fan, this may seem like a dumb question but what exactly is the criteria to be a Ref.???
what governing body says ok you are good to go as a Ref

By: Myles Kilometers

Myles Kilometers — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:35:26 +0000

Yeah…I’m not sure that the time left in the round should be considered. It adds a whole new element that will affect the consistency of the reffing.

So Vera only had like 25-30 seconds to ride out. What if it were 40 seconds? Or 50? Where’s the line?

For me, time shouldn’t be a factor in any of the refs decisions. What’s a stoppage in the first minute of the first round should be a stoppage in the last minute of the last round. Same goes for any other call where the ref uses their judgment.

Having said that…it was a bad stoppage and BenBen made a good point about how an “intelligent defense” should be more clearly defined.

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