ESPN’s Look at MMA for Kids
I used to be a huge fan of ESPN’s “Outside the Lines”. Then they started doing it too often and exhausting a lot of the good subject matter. There’s just not as much as you think happening outside those lines. This look at children’s MMA, though, is interesting to say the least. There are some good points raised, but there’s also a lot of selective thinking going on here, like the pediatrician at the 8:30 mark who claims that children don’t naturally fight one another. Either he was never actually a child himself or he didn’t grow up on planet Earth.
Below, Frank Shamrock (MMA’s greatest ambassador, no doubt) debates a basketball coach who’s written a book, and the result is both frustrating and entertaining.
(Props: MMA Scraps)
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July 23rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
well, it does look violent. i was under the assumtion that sparring, espically with children that age should at least have headgear. or some bigger gloves.
but that bball coach was an idiot. i played high school basketball 4 years. What i got out of it is that our team ( or you as an individual) should be beating the the other team, the other team doesnt have an option of submit, more of a knockout or nothing no less. on the individual part, you should be better then the counterpart on the other team ( i.e. PG to PG)
he must be a horrible basketball coach, pry doesnt even make them run lmfao. its not good parenting to make kids push there physical limits.
July 23rd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I watched the piece with Frank before. When this douche knuckle goes on and on about empathy and morals. I was in fights as a kid and I usually was cool, or even friends w/ the person I got into a fight with afterwards.
This dumbass can’t grasp that this is also SPORT and not just fighting. People like this really want me to bang my head against the wall. I bet if you caught this guy and asked him about 10 year olds boxing before he done this interview he’d have no problem with that.
Empathy, whatever man.
July 23rd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I agree that martial arts is an excellent activity for kids, but MMA gloves and no protection at all? I think that somewhere in between the “Play as the Way’ and the Shark Tank is goal here. The Sensei of the Traditional Martial Arts school is right about the little kids MMA Tourney, in the sense that someone will get seriously hurt and ruin it for everyone.
The agrument that these so called “expert” pediatricians, psychologists and basketball coaches (?wtf) put out against the sport should be more focused. Are the MMA Tourneys for kids a bad idea? Probably…Is training in MMA a bad thing? No….Is training 4 yr olds to slap the shit out of each other, on the 2nd day of training, with tiny little gloves and no head protection bad? Yes…. You can’t just put out a blanket statement that all martial arts are bad, especially when you go around saying you are an expert.
Frank has a good point about Wrestling and Football. Kids get seriously hurt or die in those sports every year. In my home town a High School Freshman over-threw a head-n-arm during a wrestling match and is now a quadrapalegic. I played football with a guy who had to turn down a full ride from Penn State because one more blow to the head and neck could have killed him.
This all comes down to “parents”. You know, “parents”. The same dipshit parents that enter thier kids in beauty pagents, get in fist fights at hockey games, tackle a little kid on the field in the middle of a pee-wee football game, buy all thier daughters Girl Scout Cookies so she can win the contest or sleep with an administrator so thier kid can get into an exclusive private school. These retarded parents will be doing the same thing until the end of time no matter what it is. “Parents” need to calm down about getting thier kid envolved in anything too early…3 yr old MMA lessons…C’mon.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Another tired old fossil who probly thinks boxing/football is ok but MMA is emo-scaring STFU. I have seen plenty of emotional scaring on the little league baseball fields.
Some guy trying to cash-in on the MMA is bad so buy my book and save your kids ROFL.
If anything I think that now MMA is catching on for the kids that fights/violence will go down a certain %. Instead of kids fighting at the parks and sidewalks they will “sometimes” fight it out in the ring/cage.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
6 year old kids absolutely do not belong doing MMA. If the parent’s want them to study martial arts then they should have them study a TMA like Judo or Wrestling. Something to instill discipline, confidence and and fundementals of balance and leverage. MMA style sport training is about inflicting violence and should be reserved for 13+ and even then it’s not for every kid, the teacher should evaluate the child for a while before really getting him involved. Pre-pubescent little kids do not have the maturity to know when and when not to use what they learn - as well as being unable to fathom the consequences of an armbar applied too hard and for too long on a playground bully. That being said, I gotta log off so I can teach my 7 month old daughter how to flying arm bar a toddler at daycare.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm
The images of these kids wailing on each other is pretty disturbing. And watching some kid wiping his eyes as his mom pushes him back into the ring is not a pretty picture. But at the end of the day, I don’t see how teaching a kid MMA is any different than teaching a kid karate, judo, wrestling etc. You just have to teach it in a safe and responsible manner - i.e. the same way they teach karate and every other martial art.
Its hard to condone the youtube videos they were showing, but I can’t imagine it would take long to put togethor a video full of kids taking massive (and/or illegal) hits in peewee football, lacrosse or hockey. Even in gentler sports like soccer or basketball, kids get hurt all the time. It’s not a good thing. It’s something that should be minimized as much as possible. But part of playing football is getting the wind knocked out of you. Part of playing soccer is getting kicked in the shins. The list goes on. That doesn’t mean kids should play video games exclusively.
As for parents forcing their children to do stuff they don’t want to do, that’s childhood. I’m sure I cried at those first early morning swimming lessons. I absolutely hated having to play the clarinet too. But I love the water now and I’m not goign to drown if I fall in. Moreover, it’s not like demanding parents are some new things that came about with childrens MMA. I remember tons of overzealous parents screaming at their kids when I was playing sports.
To the extent there’s an issue, it’s a safety one. These young kids probably shouldn’t be taking a lot of trauma to the head or choking eachother. Having to tap out of an arm bar or heal hook can’t be good for developing joints either. If kids are sparring and throwing punches and kicks, they probably need heavily padded gloves, head gear, etc. Of course, I’d be pretty shocked if this were actually happening on any sort of widespread basis - A) because there are huge liability issues and B) becasue parents don’t want to pay for their kids to be in dangerous situations.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I have no problem with kids studying martial arts, either traditionally or in the form of MMA. I do think that sparring and competition should have an age restriction on it. I think the confidence and overall health gained from learning martial arts can really outweigh the negative aspects that the basketball coach was alluding to. Furthermore, we have to accept that living in this world can be rough, and people can get into rough situations that are way outside of their control. If more people know how to defend themselves, they can get out of those situations. So many people get killed or seriously injured by not knowing how to fight back.
There are simply too many fat, gelatinous, and sissy little kids out there that do nothing but sit behind their Xbox when they get home from school. I think martial arts is a good way for parents to get their kids away from that norm.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
We will all be in agreement to some extent, so no need for the long discussions. The best part of the entire video is when Frank said “I don’t watch sports. I don’t know why you get 12 guys and hammer the ball down the field.” 12 guys Frank? Now that’s funny.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I went to high school with Dan Doyle’s kids. I heard that back in the day, he was a slimy boxing promoter. Someone at ESPN should have done a backround check on this guy before they let him get up on his soap box with his condescending attitude.
July 23rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Correction - background. My bad.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:19 pm
First i gotta say that i hate that bald guy. He has no idea what he’s talking about and went from talking about MMA to all that morals and crap. Unfortunately i dont think that Frank Shamrock is a good debater what so ever and really had a hard time getting his message through to people who don’t understand MMA.
and it really pisses me off to think that a guy like that can make money off of bashing a sport that he knows nothing about. They look at one bad thing about the sport and blow it out of proportion. Such as the guy having kids spar without any protection. They take the footage of this one person and say, “See, look at what this sport is doing to our kids”. But they forget to look at the hundreds of other Martial Arts schools that make sure they protect their students before sparring.
July 23rd, 2008 at 5:20 pm
sparring with no headgear and 8oz gloves at any age is dumb unless your are experienced and have control. that sharktank dude comes across as an agro moron. making kids spar at their second class, it’s one thing to promote getting to a competitive level instead of being a gym for “pad princess’ ” but another to try and build 4 year old brawlers.
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Too bad they couldn’t get Joe Rogan, Big John McCarthy or Randy Couture for this piece. I love Shamrock but he’s a total heel and starting to laugh at the other dude didn’t help the cause.
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Dang! Some of you people, that’s right I said you people, have a lot to say. The kids should have some gear on. I saw the trainers teaching the moves and how to do them, but I did not see any instructions on restraint and when to use the moves. I would incorporate discipline and more knowledge in an MMA school if I was a BB in MMA and not just a BB in TKD.
July 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 pm
The sport of MMA is a cash cow, and so is the sport of trying to deter it. This quack is just trying to make a name for himself.
July 23rd, 2008 at 8:35 pm
MMA is a collection of martial arts, not A martial arts.
I hate this pick and choose and call it a martial art BS that do it yourselfers are pushing.
>well, it does look violent. i was under the assumtion that sparring, espically with children that >age should at least have headgear. or some bigger gloves.
Yeah but it teaches them to be tough is probably the response the ‘coach’ will give you.
My neighbor is a boxing instructor with national qualifications and my wife has been teaching judo to mainly kids for the past 12 years. Needless to say, they had the same reaction.
Our kids all knew how to do juji-gatame armbars when they were three but it was a looong time until they were allowed to practice it.
Experience, self-control and self-awareness come with time.
And McDojo comes to the rescue for those that dont want build a foundation.
I dont mind when a grappler/striker wants to learn a few BJJ moves to complement his repertoire but doing that with kids is idiotic.
But Ive seen a lot of different martial arts dojos hand out belts like Pez candy, everyone wants everything now.
I must say Im a bit surprised at the quality and depth of the responses so far.
You dont have to be an MMA fan and be a total dipshit…
who knew?
July 23rd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
I dont really care about how old you are when you start this stuff, 6 years old is fine, whatever, but it needs to be safe. im guessing espn picked a really shitty gym…the kids weren’t wearing any headgear. I take krav maga, im 19, most of the people in the sparring class are in mid 20s’ and they have head gear on…
#1 califlower ear…you really want your 6 year old kid having that?
#2 that shits unsafe
#3 common sense…jesus christ
I think the MMA instructor is right in a sense though that it keeps kids from playing video games and drinking “sugar pop”…he’s still a douche though
July 23rd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
maybe they should of got a different represenative for the sport to be in this debate.
July 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Krav Maga sucks, come on man! Do you really need some crotchety old jewish dude telling you how to knee someone in the nuts? Then again, at least it’s not BJJ which should be shut the fuck up about.
I agree with the overall sentiment I’ve read so far in that there should be better protection (headgear and maybe rib guards) but on that note I want to say that watching those kids fight is something else, alot of them looked like they were technically better than a lot of ufc fighters are (not that that’s some big accomplishment). There’s always chance your kid could get attacked by roving gangs of feral blacks on the way to school, so I think it’s important for them to be prepared for anything (especially feral blacks).
Also….mmmm…14 year old asian girl.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Most pre-pubescent children don’t have the mental capacity to understand exactly what the immediate and long term condequences of what they are doing.
It is one thing to for your team to get the most points in a certain time frame (ie football, baseball, sparring, hockey) and another to make the other team “submit” to you or literally “beat” them.
It’s just like algebra. Some children are ready for it at a younger age, some understand it later, and some will never grasp it.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:03 am
How does a basketball coach have the knowledge to say what doctors will say about emotional scarring? He is NOT a doctor and those were just his opinions that it will harm the social aspect of a childs life. It’s not fact.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:04 am
Oh wow. he wrote a book….how many morons out there these days write books that shouldnt?
July 24th, 2008 at 5:07 am
If you wanna talk safety how bout boxing, oh yeah, no long term injuries there!
What about basketball? That really teaches our kids a good lesson. That money is more important than education when they get offered that deal to play for the NBA out of highschool.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:43 am
That basketball coach is a moron, but I think weve all pointed that out already, I just want to point out that he cuts frank off almost every time, then he has the nerve to tell frank to let him finish as if frank was being the rude one by cutting him off, MMA for younger kids I think should have more padding and better organized events with good safety rules and all that but once they are 13-14 i think its ok to start them into full contact competition and training
July 24th, 2008 at 5:46 am
that asian girl was hot, don’t attack me cuz u think im a pedo, im only 15
July 24th, 2008 at 6:42 am
The gym I train at has kid MMA classes-but they are way safer than then this. I can’t even believe this gym gets away with this, I have two kids and this was kinda stomach turning. The kid MMA training I’ve seen was mostly grappling and wrestling with the trainer watching carefully and being encourageing. I think it would be crazy for adults to be sparring that heavy even for pros.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Dr. Stricker from the first video appears to be a homosexual. Parents do not need homos telling them how to raise their children.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:49 am
biased much? espn did a one sided piece on mma because they feel threatened by the number of sports fans drawn away from their traditional and ‘wholesome’ sports to watch mma on spike or ppv. what could be more villifying to mma than to show kids railing on each other and have phd’s talk about how damaging it is? classy, espn.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I like Frank, but this is like watching Lost, when you can think of 100 things for the character to say in their defense and they don’t say any of it and you just wanna stab someone.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Damn. Watching 6 year olds fight each other looks just a little wrong…
July 25th, 2008 at 4:07 am
I felt hardcore when i began training muay thai at the age of 16 and started sparring really early with no headgear and 12 oz gloves, but thats like nothing compared to this shit.
I really didnt like the “shark” trainer, a martial arts trainer should motivate you to practice and get better, not go around intimidating u and make you do things you’re probably not ready to do in that age.
July 26th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Took me a while to put this together, but the MMA fighters I interviewed overwhelmingly thought it was not right for kids even at the high school level to be learning MMA, let alone competiting in it. Anyhow, you can see quotes from guys like Hendo, “Mayhem,” Quach, “Rampage,” and so on.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/40871-kids-and-mma-review-and-commentary-on-espns-outside-the-lines-piece
July 28th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
For Kid…. bullshit
August 4th, 2008 at 6:25 am
ok I haven’t read all of the further comments because theire simply is to many and they are too long. But I love mma and I believe that it has changed me in the best kind of way. I have grown more conciouse and aware of myself both mentally and physically. However, that being said I would have to believe that the method the shark tank goes about teaching mma and the compeitions that are taking place are completely out of line. To me childrens mma needs to be like amateur boxing, it needs head gear and chest protectors. Perhaps also a limitation on types of takedowns and submissions allowed to be implemented. I think kids today are growing up as a bunch of pussys and mma is a good way to toughen them up but that sort of abuse seems as if it could be detrimental to they’re development, especially since most of them have no real sense of anatomy then again parents throw they’re kids into football and soccer where the amount of trauma being taken could be worse than anything a child could dish out in an mma match
August 5th, 2008 at 3:50 am
I’m not sure that “Pure” MMA is a good sport for kids to be engaged in, mainly because their skulls aren’t hard enough to properly protect their brains from severe impact until about age 12-14, I believe. However, I see no issue with sports like Pancrase, Wrestling, ect. with APPROPRIATE supervision. Let’s try not to get our kids killed, but there is no reason they shouldn’t experience MMA. Our generation was so pussified by concerns about avoiding even the slightest bit of pain and bruising our precious egos that 90% of the people I deal with on a daily basis are both unbearably pompous and arrogant, while also being totally spineless and completely unwilling to make a stand for anything. I think we might be able to spare the next generation of that by providing a few scrapes to them in the correct context, so they can perhaps learn courage, honor, respect, humility and the principles of defending oneself.
August 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
A more balanced report from ABC.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/Story?id=4957762&page=1