KarmaAteMyCat:

1: "How about how he actually had to back out of the kumite and didn’t even finish the tournament. I know someone who has the LEGIT VHS Copy of the entire tournament and has trained with the runner up in the tournament."

2: "If I am mistaken then I apologize I’m not one to not admit I’m wrong."

Bro drama resolved.

Well said sir. Well said indeed.

We've all got a lot to learn. You step into a cage with someone else who's trying to take your head off. So don't let too many people get to you, because most of them can't say the same. ;-)

Picking up a traditional form is one of the best things I ever decided to do. Honestly I did a form of Kyokushin with a badass dude in Wisconsin for about a year roughly I'm nothing special I just love training in a Gi and learning from those who came before me. I have a long way to go before I can do Bassai Dai thats for damn sure. I might call them who knows.

Well when you get done perfecting Bassai, check this thread at Bullshido ( http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94774&page=1 ), and if you wanna call that studio and ask the owner what happened to Clark, their number is (845) 883-6245. You may be on to something, but you would be the first person I've ever heard make this claim.

@Nomad
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First of Madd props on being old as fuck and being able to use a computer. Secondly This isn't just my opinion as I stated in above comments one drops off the planet as one comes into the public eye. Its just weird any idea what happened to Frank Clark?
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I train Tung Soo do :)

I only have that you can go look at any video of Dux online and see he's at least 6'3" and the Frank in your video is either short, or his wife is tall as hell, because they are the same size. I've seen how big he is in person, but obviously that's not gonna be proof to you.

And I forgot to say, if memory serves (and I'm old as fuck, so it probably doesn't), Dux was born in Montreal.

@Nomadrip
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Well seeing as I already said that's the video my Buddie has. I even went into depth on why I think that he may be Dux, First of all Dux isn't his Given Name. Do you have proof to support that its not him? You can't pretend the similarities aren't there. I want some proof on what happened to Frank Clark.

The Frank Clark in that Kyokushin video is NOT Frank Dux. Dux is very tall, and though he does look a little like him, not nearly enough to be him.


That tournament is something he specifically claimed was not what he was involved with, as those Kyokushin tournaments were a bigger deal, as you can tell from the video.


The bloodsport kumite thing he describes was in the Bahamas, secret, etc, and no known video of it has ever surfaced anywhere in the media or interwebs. So like ccman said, if your buddy has it, you have Martial Arts history gold, and Frank Dux would probably pay a fortune to get that kind of proof that it even existed (assuming it went down the way he said it did).


The Kyokushin fights were less like the point-fighting you see at all the Tang Soo Do schools that Chuck Norris popularized and they put in the first Karate Kid movie. Which is kind of funny because the competitions Chuck did was basically full-contact, more like Kyokushin, and similar to the Sabaki tournaments they held for a while too, where Patrick Smith was pulled from to fight in UFC 1 in 1993.


Again, I make no claims as to the veracity of Dux's claims or background, but he is a very skilled Martial Artist. Having worked out with him a couple of times, there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that he could have stomped a mudhole in my face without so much as spilling his latte. But then again I'm kind of a pussy.

They look very Similar. The board break before the start of the event to get into the tournament. The invite Only. Etc etc. It all fits man people can say whatever they want but I've put real thought into this topic and had conversations about both the persona's One drops off the planet just around the time the other appears so meh.

http://www.kyokushincanada.com/tournamentResoults.htm

The above link has the 1975 Kyokushinkai World Open Tournament. Frank Clark was 8th place and it seems to fit much of what Frank Dux described of the tournament he competed in. If Dux we believe Dux just embellished the crap out of his own experience in this event (as Frank Clark) then I think this makes a lot of sense. The Kumite he describes fits very loosely with a Kyokushin style tournament. Can anyone make a side-by-side picture comparison of Dux and Clark to see if this is the same guy?

Interesting argument that Frank Dux changed his name. It would explain why nobody can find any proof anywhere of what he is talking about. If he were to reveal that he fought under a different name then it would be easy to show that the events never happened the way he claimed.

I'm not saying this is absolutely the case but it would explain a lot. He seems to embellish more than outright fabricate with things that we can prove happened (which is very little). I'm specifically thinking of his JCVD legal battles where there may have been some kind of agreement just not the one Dux claimed.

It's possible but I have no idea how likely.

His name isn't Frank Chen it's Frank Clark. Sir. If I am mistaken then I apologize I'm not one to not admit I'm wrong. I'd more then wager thats him though.. Yeah lying thats what I did god thanks man you got me!

The Tournament video you posted is of the same I posted Vertho. It happened in 1975 which is when Dux claimed to have competed. Willie Williams trained my Sensei's, Sensei on a side note. One Frank competed not to mention that Frank is just not somebody you can find anything about. Could it be he changed his name to Frank Dux because thats what A LOT of Traditional Martial Artists such as myself and others believe happened. I find it Ironic is all,the times and dates almost match up perfectly just think about. What happened to Frank Clark?

@Karma Methinks your friends VHS movie might be from one of the kyokushin world open tournaments. These tournaments are held every 4 years, and are open to all types of styles,or at least they were in the beginning. This might explain how you could mix this up with the Frank Dux kumite. However, this has nothing to do with said event, which is about as close to confirmed B.S. as it is possible to get. Ever.
The big black guy with an afro you're referring to is probably Willy Williams, a pretty good Kyokushin fighter in the 70's who came in 3rd in the 1979 tournament.
And Frank clark, he was one of the American compeditors in the first world open tournament of 75. He came in 8th, and is a Kyokushin fighter not a Navy Seal/CIA agent/Ninjitsu warrior like Dux.
There were 4 guys from the states in the first tournament, William Oliver, Willie Williams, Charles Martin, and Frank Clark. Check out the following link to have a closer look at Frank Clark(around the 5.10 mark).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GICg8Nh78hw

Sorry to say it guys, but in my opinion the super awesome/ totally amazing if it were true/ man I would have loved to have been there tournament, is just one more Martial arts myth too many still buy into.

*Frank Chen competing in a karate tournament that is clearly not the Kumite tournament.

I don't understand. The internet drama is that ccman says Frank Dux is a liar who never competed in the Kumite tournament, and then Karma says that he has seen a VHS tape of Dux competing in the kumite tournament, and then ccman says that Karma is lying, and then Karma posts videos of Frank Chen competing in a karate tournament. I don't think the issue has been resolved, you guys. Internet bro-drama, recommence.

Karma WINS....,,,,, FATALITY mwoah hahahaha(Shang Tsung Laughing)

What Nobody wants to Argue anymore? Damn. Alright well my ass if going to bed I mean I have to wake up and Pretend to train at 7am it's a tough Job but being a fighter just to say your a fighter is a tough fucking life style. Catch you later Potato Nation.

Hey look.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuttVESTZLw&feature=player_detailpage#t=249s
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Just saying more of the good good for my good buddie CCman.

To Continue with my FACT SHEET HERE. This tournament went down in 1975.. Released in 1976. Oh the Correlations are still lining up.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-PaHeyPOpU&feature=player_detailpage#t=100s
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Oh did I mention thats the Only American in the Kumite named Frank? Oh.. man..

Remember when they had to Prove their way into the Kumite and that they Trained with said Masters? Etc,etc, and break a brick in the video blood sport?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUm5TkuE9t0&feature=related
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Ha... Look their all breaking. Funny Correlations are a mother fucker don't worry I am far from done posting now.

I don't need to profit from anything dude. It's all Public knowledge just do some research thats all I ask. You can't make money off of Productions already Profited on and Obviously copyrighted.

I ment to type he was Born Frank Clark or thats what he competed as it's well known to many traditional Martial artists.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GICg8Nh78hw
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You can't argue facts bro. He's right there in video plain as day its him. I did some more digging. I'll still go record the solid video.

Ccman, I don't much care if this tourney happened or not but this statement is comedy gold

"except i would recommend selling it to the LA times since they have apparently been looking for 2 decades."


What? Lol the LA times has dedicated 2 decades (since ~1991) trying to locate this? What, like they have a team of experts 24/7 365 days a year scouring the world for evidence of the ultimate death tournament? so wait who is the lying here? I thought karma was the liar.

I don't know karma but calling me his groupie isn't going to hurt my feelings.

Is this your out?? some guy in a tournament named frank clark from the 70's with a mustache so it must be frank dux? please god do not start making disclaimers.

"Oh and Frank Dux was not born Frank Clark he was born Frank Clark"

WHAT?

And saying it now... i do not want some karate tourn video downloaded from a chinese website so it looks all ancient but has some random white guy in it.... i want an actual video, with Frank Dux fighting. if it has zero verfiable footage, i owe nothing. if i can locate on youtube... delete yourself, and do nopt make a shodow, because i will never stop. But honest, verifiable, i will honestly apologize. i might make fun of you not profiting from it, but i will apologize.

Oh and Frank Dux was not born Frank Clark he was born Frank Clark or at leas thats the name he competed under. Some people really should dig the internet more.. Also Dux just sounds tougher. just saying... just saying... but you know me Karma I just talk out my ass.

looking foward to it Karma. and i actually named the promotion... not sooooo random.

And just to finish, i am not saying Dux never lied. I am saying that I refuse to believe a 3rd degree seperation story from an un-named source someone trained with for a minute that just happens to have a video of.... which in theory is not allowed to be taped, and showed it to someone who was there for like a minute. Let the groupies spit, then argue all day, yes you veer, but I aint buyin. and in 30 days when i ask for it, i completely expect to be ignored or hear about no time (jobless) to go get it and how fighting is a 120 hr a week job. Should have just swallowed and gotten the #1 spot (sorry drano)

@CCman
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I have a fight October 16th I goto Wisconsin shortly after I'll record the LEGIT Kumite video for you bro don't worry. As long as dude and I can get together I'll get you a nice little video. I don't forget anything. My fight record is none of your concern sport I'm working on two fights in the next two Months One in October as I said and One in november. If I wanted a fight I wouldn't go to a random guy on the internet who's talked shit to me and about me even though that seems like an amazing way to promote ones career. Thanks but I'll pass on you and the sideshow production. No offense of course I'll be coming for my apology. Oh and the LA Times could simply ask some of the guys who competed in the legit Kumite for a video. Don't worry big daddy Karma's got what you need.

@Veer
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Thanks for the Support. I'll have a copy of this video soon enough.

Actually Karma, dispite your groupies fighting for you, i would actually offer it if you produce it. except i would recommend selling it to the LA times since they have apparently been looking for 2 decades.

aS FOR GROUPIE #2.... YES YOU VEER, yes, lying is lying. for profit or not does not matter. it is for personal gain. "i knocked down tyson in 89 during sparring" is a lie, for personal gain. "i was in the room when Bush admitted there were no WMD" is a lie, for personal gain. I do not believe Karma and will apologize if he produces his own little zapruder film, But i am seriously doubting he will. he is hoping for an ADD moment that we all forget next month... as said, if news agencies who scoured the planet looking for evidence of a tourn that no one believes exists, i am more than within my right to doubt the 'i know cuz i been in a fight' poster happens to have one.
Otherwise Karma. if where you are you can not find pro fights, message me. i can find some for you. been consulting IMK fights down here. Sparrow can testify. Sanctioned and will count for a pro record.

A 56 round single elimination tournament would require 36,028,797,018,964,000 people. Even with double elimination the number would be unrealistically high. Dux should do some simple math before his outright lies.

Lol oh my god that's funny, I knew it would be a high number. I stopped around round 20. Every living multi cellular vertebrate that has ever lived, or will live, participated, got beat and he is bragging about beating 56 humans? I want to talk to the guy who had to fight the t-Rex to get through round six cause there sure as hell aren't enough people to fill those brackets.

@CCman
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I am going to go back to wisconsin this October and I will video record this VHS via third person Recording device. When you look like a complete Asshat after the fact I'll take my apology public K thanks.
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@RickRood
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Oh right man I'm a fighter just to say I'm a fighter. Thats how it works training as much as I do God thanks for that insight into logic and how it really feels like with a dose of reality via your perspective. Now badtroll you know nothing about me obviously, but don't worry I am a fighter because I like to fight. When you see Sudo tell him and his fagget brother I want that Title shot and to stop avoiding the subject.

Ccman,oh youre totally right karma must be a douche bag because you said so. After all lying is lying and karma claiming something without proof ready and prepackaged just for you is exactly the same as lying for financial gain for decades. I see your logic and yield to it. Wow

Oh wait, double that number. Man that is a big ass arena.

A 56 round single elimination tournament would require 36,028,797,018,964,000 people. Even with double elimination the number would be unrealistically high. Dux should do some simple math before his outright lies.

Ahem.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-fighters-who-lied-their-way-to-legendary/

Karma is a fighter so that he can say he is a fighter. I've been reading this guys posts for a long time now and he's that guy. No respect, thinks he's the shit cuz he fights. That Karma-thon was a joke.

Touche away Kingmade

Very good wiki search Veer.

except,
the tournments existance is in as much question as dux fighting/winning it. so Karma knowing the only person alive with outdated yet revolutionary for the timeline proof... wow. No media source has ever even prooven he fought in such a tourn..... again wow.
My B is a lie is a lie. and sorry but if Dux, the media, and anyone else can't find froof either way, I am doubting Karma is sitting on said gold mine.
My C is easy. Karma does not have a pro record. it was why him campaigning for money to go to the tryout made no sense. him campaigning for pro fights might have. they required 3 pro fights. he had none. funny, i could potentially help him with the pro fight issue now if he was ready to step up, if he could make it to houston. And sorry, but no. I respect he does this, honestly, but as a fighter he should show 3x the respect the rest of us do, and does not/did not.

ccman:
"A. Karma, he supposibly competed in the early 70?s when he won, so video?? seriously? I do not believe you, not even a little."

hmm.. actually we are talking about 1975-80 that isn't early 70's and yes there was video recording in the 70's. VCRs came out in 76' or so but the VHS standard was around since the early 70's for TV shows. Karma didn't write that the VHS copy he saw was the orignal medium it was recorded in he stated it was the LEGIT COPY meaning it was the tourney in question.

You write:
"B. I am not saying he told the truth nor am i saying he lied, but a 3rd degree seperation version with a vhs tape you cant produce actually makes you as big a douche as Dux if he lied."

Well the difference here is that Karma can't prove at this very moment he is telling the truth and after 3 1/2 decades Frank Dux still can't prove anything he said ever happen. For me there is a big difference. Frank Dux has has the easier to prove case and still can't do it.

You're point "C" is pretty dumb. Karma is in fact an MMA fighter with a pro record, I think, so in my book he is speaking from a position of some authority as a real martial artist. He has paid in blood and sweat for that opinion.

CCMAN... I feel a touche coming on.

I was waiting for the punchline. This can't possibly be a serious post can it? Frank Dux is clearly just trying to maintain the "International Man of Mystery" persona that he generated in the 80's. Also, what ccman says is correct. As much of a cheeseball Seagal is, he is absolutely a legitimate martial artist.

A. Karma, he supposibly competed in the early 70's when he won, so video?? seriously? I do not believe you, not even a little.
B. I am not saying he told the truth nor am i saying he lied, but a 3rd degree seperation version with a vhs tape you cant produce actually makes you as big a douche as Dux if he lied.
C. accomplish sometyhing yourself before you bash someone else. i recall the Karma-a-thon to send you to a try out even though going in you did not qualify. Its like we love to Bash BJ penn for being odd, but damn if he hasn't backed it up against the best.
If Frank Dux is a liar, oh well, Segal has become a cartoon but the man is still the first American to make 7th dan in Akido, were keyboard warriors looking for a success to break down so we can feel empowered. Exactly who are we to say a word.

Frank Dux claims to have knocked out 56 people consecutively in 1 tournament!? This means he had 56 fights (1 for each round) in one tournament. A 56 round single elimination tournament would require more people than have ever existed on planet Earth ever. How do people believe this stuff? Is he trying to say that the tournament had people fighting multiple times after they lost-- possibly due to severe injury? Why the heck would anyone participate in that kind of tournament? Were they giving the gold to the guy who lost the least? That makes no sense.

http://www.bullshido.org/Frank_Dux

has a list of all his claims and some evidence against them.

@El Famous Burrito - I see what you did there, Gene Hackman!

Bullshido, if there are any questions. They say he didn't Kuma a single Te! And his magician assistants admit the bullet proof glass demonstration was faked.

This would require me going to Wisconsin which can be arranged and some how copying VHS to DVD but I can promise I'll try. See if my buddie lets me figure something out Maybe Ill record it from a tv.

If memory serves me right he Broke his hand.. Oh Irony.

FIGHT FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIFE!!! (kumite, kumite)

@ Karma, footage or it didn't happen.

The video says he worked with the Navy Seals, not that he was one. And damn I can't believe he didn't actually finish the tournament. The man can punch through bulletproof glass but cant finish a tournament. WTF

Tim Kennedy would make fillet mignon out of his ass (no homo).

Dude is a complete fraud, and this has been investigated many times. Still, considering this was a defining movie in my childhood, I'll give an "OK, USA!" thumb-up to watch this... but not for $4.

Duck, I says.

I still call him Frank Ducks, because I'm a rebel. Frank Ducks Sucks, that's his whole name.

Frank Dux is a fraud - HELLOOO PEOPLE!! How do you not know this? CP, is this a sarcastic post or what? I hope so, this guy is a total Stephan Seagal, except he has lied a lot more in a lot more crazy ways.

I think there needs to be a fight to the death between Dux and Seagal. Then whoever wins is just killed anyway.

Dux was NEVER a fucking Navy Seal, so many fucking people claim they are, and its so fucking easy to verify. Its something like 250,000 people a year claim they are/were SEALS and only 50,000 ever existed, fuckin cunt. Most people can kick my ass but I'd beat the shit out of this cunt if I was ever given the chance, I'm like a Honey Badger, I don't give a shit.

Wait, wait, WAIT! So all of this time my favorite movie of all time has been a lie? I cannot believe Frank W. Dux does not have an accent. My life has been sent into a tail spin.

One of my senseis was in Only The Strong. And he knows Frank personally. I can't comment on the whole "lying" aspect but it seems like the documentary has a lot to do with him being portrayed wrongly by JCVD in Bloodsport.

No I do not recall a Chong Li and no there was no recorded deaths in the tournament. There was a big black dude with an Afro and he was badass that you should know. It was invite only however it wasn't underground. Many different styles and many different people showed up from all over the world, Sadly Frank was one of them and if you are reading this Frank. FUCK YOU. How dare you take away from the guys who actually competed throughout the entire tournament and attempt to steal their thunder. FUcking douchebag

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-14998593

@Karma - Can you give a brief overview of what really went down? Was there actually a Chong Li, and did he kill someone?

I trained with him a few times at his studio in Sherman Oaks a long fucking time ago (the last time I talked to him was after I saw his name in the credits of that Capoeira movie from the early 90's (Only the Strong?). He said he was the dude who got crushed by a car or something. I don't know how many of his claims were real, but he did move pretty well, and his workouts were a bitch. I seriously thought I would die the few times I went there.

This guy's an even bigger fraud than Stephen Seagal, but only because the Master Seagal Front Kick™ actually works.

How about how he actually had to back out of the kumite and didn't even finish the tournament. I know someone who has the LEGIT VHS Copy of the entire tournament and has trained with the runner up in the tournament. It wasn't anything like it was portrayed in the movie Bloodsport though I'll always love blood sport. Frank Deux can eat a dick for all his lies.