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Ben vs. Ben: UFC 100 Edition


(This ought to confuse the hell out of the over-70 Keno crowd.)

Just in case you can’t catch us doing our Ben vs. Ben thang on Sirius Fight Club today at 6 pm EST — and you better have a good excuse for that — we now present to you another installment of our bad faith arguments.  Just like UFC 100, shit is epic, son.

If Lesnar beats Frank Mir and unifies the UFC’s heavyweight titles, does that mean we’ll all have to accept him as the legitimate champ, despite his 4-1 record, or will his career be a never-ending struggle for acceptance until he beats Fedor in a climactic street fight?

BF: If Lesnar beats Mir in convincing fashion – meaning without the help of bad officiating, bad judging, or bad breaks – then everyone who keeps insisting that Lesnar is overrated or undeserving is going to have to suck it up and deal.  Beating Mir would prove that he’s not just a big, strong, freakish brute with a bad tattoo.  I mean, he’ll still be all those things, but he’ll also be the undisputed UFC heavyweight champ, who has avenged his only career loss.


Of course, it will take all of ten seconds after his win for fans to insist that he’ll never beat Shane Carwin and/or Cain Velasquez (my money’s on “Darwin” Carwin), but that’s life as an outspoken, mostly unlikable MMA champ.  Regardless of what anyone says about his brash personality, homophobia, tattoo choice, and how those all might be related, no more will anyone be able to say that he doesn’t deserve to be where he’s at.  Winning has a way of silencing that criticism.

Now, will he be considered the best heavyweight in MMA after beating Mir?  I’m going to let a certain one-word chant answer that question.

BG: Agreed. You have to understand that Frank Mir is one of the worst style-matchups available to Lesnar in the UFC. Brock’s great when he’s on top of you, raining down wackoff-punches, but as Lesnar learned the first time they fought, Mir is a dangerous motherfucker off his back; his strengths go a long way in nullifying Brock’s. So if there’s any one victory that will prove Brock’s worth, it’s this one. "Clash of the Titans" matches against other hulking wrestlers can come later.

And by the way, forget Fedor. He’ll never compete in the UFC, so it’s not worth bringing him into this discussion. As Donald Rumsfeld once said: "You go to war with the UFC heavyweight division you have, not the the UFC heavyweight division you wish you had." Theoretically, Lesnar could spend the next two years kicking the asses of Carwin, Velasquez, Nogueira, and TUF 10 winner Kimbo Slice, while Fedor rots on the shelf because there’s nobody left for him to fight after Josh Barnett. Then we’ll see who’s more relevant.

Aside from the two title fights, what are you most excited to see at UFC 100?

BG: Personally, I’d like to see Bruce Buffer land his "360" so ferociously that it creates a minor hurricane within the Mandalay Bay Events Center that blows Arianny Celeste’s top off. I think that would be a fitting tribute to Helio Gracie’s legacy.

As for things that are actually guaranteed to happen on Saturday, no other fight on the card will match the visceral joy of seeing Jon Jones go wild-style on Jake O’Brien with his arsenal of Greco Roman slams and YouTube-inspired striking. The dude is like a big black Urijah Faber. I can’t wait to see Bones take the victory in entertaining fashion, then yell "MACHIIIIIIDAAAAAA, YOU HAVE MY BELLLLLLLLT!!!" so convincingly during the post-fight interview that the UFC actually gives him an immediate title shot, and so ferociously that it blows Arianny Celeste’s top off.

BF: I’m also looking forward to seeing “Bones” Jones put a man-sized beating on O’Brien, but I can’t say it’s what I’m most looking forward to, mainly because I think it will be a one-sided ass-whipping that’s mostly fun for its highlight reel value.  Honestly, I’m pretty pumped about Yoshihiro Akiyama’s UFC debut.  The fact that he’s making it at UFC 100, against Alan “The Welcoming Committee” Belcher, only ramps up the excitement for me.  

In a weird way, I’m also kind of looking forward to seeing how Mark Coleman does against Stephan Bonnar.  I know, I’m setting myself up for disappointment, but that’s part of the fun.  I want to believe that he can whip himself into shape and unleash the beast on Bonnar, perhaps even with a headbutt or two for old times’ sake.  I don’t have high hopes, but I’m totally willing to be astonished even by a very mediocre performance.  And if any Octagon Girl is losing her top, it’s Holly Madison.  Arianny can still get paid for the debut of her rack.  Holly’s is old news.

Why don’t you give a shit about the Dan Henderson/Michael Bisping fight?

BF: You know something?  I really can’t put my finger on it.  Maybe it’s that it doesn’t feel like it means much.  There was no real rivalry even after this incredibly mediocre season of TUF, so that angle doesn’t work.  The winner won’t immediately be a top contender.  It doesn’t seem like the kind of style match-up bound to produce an instant classic.  Basically, it’s just another fight.

That’s fine, but it’s dwarfed by the other big fights on this card.  I’m not any more excited for it than I am for Jon Jones vs. Jake O’Brien, and maybe even less so since I am pretty pumped to see “Bones” put a next-level beatdown on a one-dimensional wrestler.  Factor in the months of hype for this one, and it all feels like a road to nowhere to me.  The fact that I can’t even pinpoint the exact reason that I’m so unenthusiastic about it only solidifies my position.  I’m too indifferent even to complain efficiently.

BG: Bro, either you’re in denial or you haven’t been paying attention — the winner of this fight will immediately be a top contender for the middleweight title. Whether it’s deserving or not is another debate, but Dana White has made it clear that Henderson vs. Bisping is pretty much a #1 contenders match, with the winner getting Anderson Silva next. So we should care, because it’s kind of an important fight.

But I do know what you mean, because I only give a little bit of a shit about this one. I blame TUF. The last season was set up to sell Bisping as the scrappy underdog who just might shock the world against Henderson. In reality, the Count came off as both a poor winner and a poor loser. The moment he squirted Damarques Johnson in the face with water was the moment many fans thought "Okay, I guess now I’m rooting for the boring guy who never says anything." To properly promote a fight, you either need two guys who are well-respected (i.e., GSP vs. Alves), or two guys who are both tremendous assholes (i.e., Lesnar vs. Mir), or you can have an underdog who’s a lot more likable than the favorite (i.e., Florian vs. Penn). You can’t have a douchebag underdog vs. a dullard, or Ben Fowlkes won’t care about your fight, and you might as well retire at that point because you are DONE.

Say you’re in dire financial straits and the only way out is to bet everything you got on one underdog at UFC 100.  If he loses, you get your legs broken.  If he wins, you get to stop living in your car.  Who’s your horse?

BG: You know, living in your car isn’t so bad once you realize that possessions are meaningless and refrigerated food is a luxury meant to keep us docile and weak. Still, everybody needs gas money (and functional legs), so I’d take whatever cash I had and throw it all on Alan Belcher. Look, Yoshihiro Akiyama is an awesome fighter, but he has a lot working against him. He’s an Octagon first-timer. He’s used to fighting in rings, not cages. He won’t be able to use his gi, or his body lotion. He’s Asian. I know that may sound racist, but Asian fighters have a long history of underperforming in the UFC — particularly Korean ones who fight Alan Belcher.

Meanwhile, the Talent is a tough, well-rounded fighter who could overwhelm Akiyama standing and surprise him on the ground. So I’m depending on Belcher to ward off the bookies and get me a nice payday. Then, I’d gather my winnings, check into an extended stay hotel, raise a can of domestic beer and make a toast to the series of savvy financial decisions that led me to this point. The good life, baby.

BF: Man, do you think you’re going to miss your legs?  Or will you just learn to do without them, like you’ve learned to do without your dignity and self-respect?  I see what you’re saying about Akiyama being an Octagon newbie, but I think he knows what he’s getting into.  Plus, Belcher was getting picked apart by Kang before he snagged a pretty lucky guillotine choke, so I’m not sold on his overall ability.  

Instead, I’m fixing to blow your mind by putting the last of my theoretical cash on Frank Mir.  I think it’s entirely possible that he gets mauled tomorrow night, but you know something?  To hell with it.  Mir’s a bit of a longshot.  But I’m a longshot too, Goldstein.  I want to ride the whirlwind on the slim odds that Mir grabs an armbar and exposes the jiu-jitsu-shaped hole in Lesnar’s game once and for all.  When he wins, you can find me at the Taco Bell, buying enough chalupas to last until my next big score.

Cagepotato Comments

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The Harvester- July 11, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Don't diss the Buffer 360. It is worth the PPV price alone to witness this great achievement in announcing history. This feet will never again be duplicated to such success and amazement. History... Gentlemen. History...
Markdog- July 11, 2009 at 8:02 am
Nice. Very nice.
Dakyn- July 11, 2009 at 3:06 am
People doubted Mir against Big Nog too, so I wouldn't say taking Mir over Lesnar is crazy talk.
Chri534.- July 10, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I know nobody is going to side with me on this one, but...

If I had to pick an underdog that was a gamble of all gambles, I'd take Jake O'Brien. The odds are well enough against his favor for me to try to make the argument that Jones' talents are still very raw and unproven. I think it's worth it to take the chance with these kind of odds to bet on the side that says we're falling in love with Jon Jones too quickly.

...Then again, I've been wrong before, and I hope I'm wrong once more in this instance...
Deadpanda- July 10, 2009 at 11:59 am
I love you Bens! (in a very violent & sexual nature)

Your articles always make me die laughing.
biohazardone- July 10, 2009 at 11:52 am
Oh, and by the way BF, I am looking forward to bisping/hendo fight. I sincerely want Henderson to beat the shit out of bisping. I mean, I really want to see him put a beating on bisping. Maybe that will shut up the 'douch bag'
biohazardone- July 10, 2009 at 11:49 am
Im going out on a limb myself. In order to make money, you need to take risks. I put $200 on Mir about two months ago. I think Lesnar's weak defense of jiujitsu will be exposed. Lesnar is a one punch guy...I know I know, that is all it takes but, one punch victories can be a long shot, especially if you are expecting it and you train against it. The safe bet would be on Lesnar, but to make good fucking money, My bet is on Mir. I want Mir to break Lesnar's fucking leg or arm.
LargeMidget- July 10, 2009 at 11:31 am
Holy shit. I've been waiting weeks for this article, and I was not dissapointed. I don't think anything in my entire life makes me laugh out loud anymore except shit that is written on this site. Thank you kindly for re-affirming my life.
The_Dean_of_Wing- July 10, 2009 at 11:09 am
"I know that may sound racist, but Asian fighters..."

LOL. Well its okay that you said it now that you used a precursor.
Clyde- July 10, 2009 at 11:03 am
How can you not be hyped for bisping henderson? I'm surprised Bisping has any fans left so I though most people would buy the PPV just to see him gets what's coming to him.
portland mma- July 10, 2009 at 10:49 am
I agree Old bald and irish i would love to see aleks and fedor but i think they're getting along again. On a side note I agree with the Ben's I think Akiyama is going to lose to Belcher. He may have not looked awesome against Dennis Kang but Kang is a stud and Belcher still has a W over him.
Just A Wrestler- July 10, 2009 at 10:49 am
i love chalupas!
C.B.- July 10, 2009 at 10:39 am
If Mir actually kills Lesnar - I'm not talking beats him bad I mean physically kills him, UFC 100 will live up to the hype. Otherwise...meh.
Old_Bald_and_Irish- July 10, 2009 at 10:39 am
Goldstein sez:

"Theoretically, Lesnar could spend the next two years kicking the asses of Carwin, Velasquez, Nogueira, and TUF 10 winner Kimbo Slice, while Fedor rots on the shelf because there's nobody left for him to fight after Josh Barnett. Then we'll see who's more relevant."

Amen to that, brother.

I luvs me my Fedor, but I don't think he'll ever fight in the UFC. And yes, after he gets past Barnett (sorry, Josh), where does Fedor go?

...well, probably for rollercoasters and ice cream cones, but I digress....

Is Fedor back to fighting Arlovski again? ...or Sylvia?!!

The only heavyweights outside of the UFC, that I can think of off the top of my shiny bald head, that I'd like to see Fedor take on are probably his brother Aleks, Overeem and Brett Rogers....and yes, I think they would all lose to Fedor.

I think Dana is playing the waiting game with Fedor. Slowly, it's turning from the UFC needing Fedor, to Fedor eventually needing the UFC.
Meohfumado- July 10, 2009 at 10:35 am
@vyapaar, rotating twice in the air would be a 720. he only needs one full rotation for a 360.

I'm personally waiting for the Buffer 900 McTwist Kickback.

kwisdumb- July 10, 2009 at 10:32 am
@Horror: I think the prospect of a Super Heavyweight division has been discussed in a lot of places before. My general thoughts on it are that there aren't really enough competitors that are 250+ pounds, and that, of those who are, I don't think there are too many that are incredibly skilled.

If there were a SHW division in the UFC, Brock Lesnar would tear through it and be champion forever. At least with the diversity in the weights of current HWs, he's proven he can be beaten.

Spacebump- July 10, 2009 at 10:29 am
Mir FTW.
831 Son- July 10, 2009 at 10:24 am
Just saw the new Dana vlog actually and at the end Dana and his homies/fellow employees wacthed the interview with Heather and Rampage on CagePotato and they were laughing their asses off. They didnt mention Cagepotato though....
Horror Fighter- July 10, 2009 at 10:19 am
Anybody know whether Sirius Fight Club is available on an XM channel?

Agree with BF: I'm interested in the Coleman/Bonnar fight, although I hate seeing either one lose. I hope the fight airs.

I think I know why, even after the fight with Couture, it's tough to take Brock seriously. Imagine if Anderson Silva tore through the 145ers in WEC. Sure, there's great talent there in Brown, Faber, etc., but as a middleweight competitor, Silva outweighs them by 40 pounds (if you compare them after weight cuts, of course). You'd expect him to win. So how's that any different from watching a monster like Brock (who, according to Dana, weighs 400 pounds) beat a 220 lb. guy like Randy? That's not Lesnar's fault, but it just seems like an obvious flaw in the heavyweight division. All the other divisions are separated by 10-20 pounds. Why not do the same with the heavyweights, giving us a super-heavyweight division or something similar for guys like Brock to prove himself against guys his size? Once he rips through them, you'll know he's the real deal.

Eh. What the hell do I know. I just had a bunch of shots in my neck for a herniated disc and I'm high on pain medication. When I sober up, I probably won't even remember this...

I'm cold and wolves are after me.
Aptninja- July 10, 2009 at 10:13 am
I don't understand why he wouldn't just call it "Crap Potato." I can't even consistently pronounce "Crapato" out loud.
Diggler- July 10, 2009 at 10:12 am
HAHA @ BIG BLACK URIJAH FABER.

Very True
mayhem- July 10, 2009 at 10:11 am
Good stuff... I agree with most of your picks except putting all my money on Belcher.... thats just not the right guy. I would put all my money on Jon Jones.
Other than wrestling Jake doesnt have much of anything else thats a threat to Bones.
kwisdumb- July 10, 2009 at 10:11 am
I don't necessarily have a problem with Brock. I think he's a great wrestler who can throw a punch. I just think he was pushed to the top too fast. After he lost to Mir he should've had to win 2-3 more fights before challenging for the title. I think going into the title fight with a 4-1 or 5-1 record would've helped him a lot. I definitely see him beating Mir though, and if he does I think he'll be unstoppable for a while.

I'd have to say Jones/O'Brien is my most anticipated fight outside of the title fights as well. I think Bonnar/Coleman will be fun to watch, and Hendo/Bisping will be interesting, but Jones/O'Brien definitely takes the cake.

Why doesn't the UFC brand the Hendo/Bisping fight as a #1 Contender? Do they ever do this? I think it'd be a good idea, especially when the fight isn't attracting too much attention. I guess it could make them look even worse if a situation arose where the #1 Contender wasn't getting the shot (ie Rampage on TUF), but still.

superflat- July 10, 2009 at 10:06 am
What we need is that dude who parachuted into the Tyson fight -- HE would blow Ariany's top off. In fact, she might willingly remove it for him.

831 Son- July 10, 2009 at 10:04 am
Ben Fowlkes, son, you got owned on that Bisping vs Hendo question. Fucking title fight is what it means!! The winner gets to get beat up by Anderson Silva. That means just a little bit.

Cage Crapato- Really??
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