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Cecil Peoples: Leg Kicks "Certainly Don't" Finish Fights


(Pat Barry vs. Dan Evensen @ UFC 92. Somehow Barry skates by on those useless leg kicks.)

Everyone’s favorite maverick judge, Cecil Peoples, supposedly explained the rationale behind his scoring of the Machida/Rua fight at UFC 104 in a talk with CageReport.net.  He begins with the usual defense, pointing out that he has a different perspective on the fight than the fans do, and then launches into an explanation of why Machida’s strikes counted for more than Rua’s:

“Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."

Of course, sometimes leg kicks do end fights.  It just doesn’t happen all that often.  And even when leg kicks don’t serve as the knockout blow, they still damn well hurt and frequently end up making the difference in a fight.

But that doesn’t matter to Peoples.  If you aren’t hitting someone in the face, you aren’t trying to end a fight.  This is the same man who, later in the interview, says that he gave Machida the edge on Octagon control because he “made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control.” 

Let me get this straight:

- Strikes to any part of the body other than the face = useless in ending a fight. 

- Forcing your opponent to bring the fight to you as you avoid engaging = Octagon control.

This decision is starting to make a lot more sense.

Tags: Cecil Peoples, Lyoto Machida, Shogun Rua, UFC 104
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Comments

NateGetsIrate Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:14

So leg kicks aren't gonna win you the fight? Too bad Peoples didn't explain that to Corey Hill, sooner. Talk about breaking news.

Welcome to Logan Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:12

Let Cecil Peoples take a liver punch from Bas Rutten and still say how strikes to body don't end fights.

P.S.- can everyone stop blaming Dana and the UFC for badge Judging and Reffing, for the last time they have no control of who refs and judges.

Perdew Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:12

i made the exact same point and fight reference in the forums about cecil's asinine statement.

+ 354 to CP for having the same size penis as me

kupo Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:12

Cecil Peoples has robbed me of my sanity.

Professor Choas Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:13

If that is his real excuse then i am amazed. His theory on octagon control is beyond retarded

Boo Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:14

Cecil Peoples should die of gonorrhea and rot in Hell.

Professor Choas Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:14

brock lesnar dropped out at ufc 106 by the way

El Famous Burrito Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:16

Leg kicks don't finish fights. That's why I switched to eye pokes.

Dr. Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:16

True that. Bob Sapp's ribs need one from the Cro cop fight. The list could go one.

And Cecil Peoples needs to eat shit and die. What a moron. The second I saw him as a judge I rolled my eyes.

People talk about Steve M. shouldn't be reffing but goddamn, Cecil Motherfucking Peoples???????

Not effective aggressiveness?? Take a look at Machida's body and legs. Note how it changed the way he was fighting.

And clean strikes? Yeah totally but in the flurries that Machida threw there weren't a whole lot of those landing. His counter straights were there, but definitely not causing Shogun to abort and cover up.

C-Bus Allstar Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:17

I'm still a little confused as to why there hasn't been an online petition to get Cecil Peoples immediately and irreversibly banned from judging MMA matches.

Eyes red as Fedor Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:17

Soko would finish Peoples via legkicks.

LastEmperor Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:18

He should have said, "Certainly don't in THIS case".

artigale Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:19

Speechless........how can you argue with complete uninformed stupidity. Maybe that is why he says what he does. All you can do is throw your hands up in the air and walk away in disgust. To quote a great line;

“Mr. Peoples, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

Contraband Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:22

what would it be like if steve mazzagatti's job was....

A bus driver- he'd stop the bus 30 meters before each bus stop

porn camera man- he'd stop rolling film before the money shot

a porn star- he'd prematurly ejaculate

I have to much time on my hands to think of this shit but i have many more steve mazzagatti jobs in my head,so i think i'll be like him and stop things short

Acrocerid Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:22

What blows me away is that leg kicks don't finish fights according to the judges...yet takedowns earn big points? I'm all for takedowns, but unless you are 'slamming' someone you aren't looking to finish.

DaltonSwayze Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:25

Everyone is complaining about judging and whatnot, but does this fight make the case for more rounds? I've always felt like a 3 round decision is nearly meaningless, and a 5 round win slightly less so. For a championship bout, there needs to be more time if you are going to have two high level athletes competing.

Gassing won't be a problem if they truly are high level athletes, so I say bring on 7 rounders for championship bouts and 5 rounders for everything else. 3 round fights are way too short.

Jugger Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:29

Kinda scary that this dude judges MMA bouts for a living, huh?

youngblood Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:30

Sooooo..... If backing up and getting the guy across the cage to chase you= cage control, Thales Leites should be the 185lb champ? Leites controlled where the fight was fought (on his back with his legs in the air,) didn't take any serious shots that could have ended the fight, and was on the receiving end of numerous leg and body kicks. Somebody go and get Silva to give up the belt to the real champion.

Was Peoples involved with this fight too???

Contraband Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:32

So your telling me Kalib starnes was controling the octagon?? I think he should go to the athletic commision in montreal and get the decision loss to nate quarry reversed.

Ballentine Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:33

I guess Cecil Peoples didnt see Brandon Vera's fight before K-Sos

Gman Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:33

WHAT!? Are you kidding me!? How ridiculous is this man!?!

So, by that rationale, Kalib Starnes beat Nate Quarry, because, he dictated where the fight took place!? By running away, the attacking Quarry had to chase Starnes, and thus, Starnes demonstrated superior Octagon control... for the entire fight....

Are you serious!?
And about leg kicks!

Somebody needs to show this guy the Marco Ruas v. Paul Varlans fight... or really any number of fights where the losing fighter cannot continue because of damage sustained from leg kicks. Technically, does that mean we can give Rampage round 2 back of his title fight with Forrest Griffin? I'm not sure how Rampage hurt his knee then because Forrest didn't do any real significant damage with that leg kick I suppose. I think all that happened was Rampage fell over and Forrest proceeded to dry hump him into submission...

Wow. I'm speechless as to how the rest of the country and the entire media can see one fight but for some reason, the people employed to make the decisions are completely oblivious to any credible knowledge of the sport.

Contraband Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:33

So your telling me Kalib starnes was controling the octagon?? I think he should go to the athletic commision in montreal and get the decision loss to nate quarry reversed. it's pretty clear peoples wasnt 1 of the judges in that fight

Clyde Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:38

Why not make every fight like Gracie/Sakuraba and be done with it Swayze?

Also by cecil peoples logic, do you earn points for pulling guard as long as you hold it if it looks like the other guy wanted to stand up and punch you as opposed to lie/kneel down and punch you? I think some of Dean Lister's fights need to be re-evaluated.

Monkey Punch Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:39

i think i have a promising ufc career ahead of me. i can run away and get the piss beat out of me.

Ouch That hurts Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:43

What are the chances of having the scores posted at the end of the round. All other sports show the score during the event. That way if a fighter knows he is down he can push harder to finish the fight.

Any thoughts?

Goog Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:43

You people need to make up your fucking minds... including the Bens. Everyone threw shit at Rua for the Coleman and Griffing fights, saying he's a shell of his former self. Terrible shape. Not a contender. Better days behind him. Now everyone is on his nuts because he didn't actually SUCK for the first time in a few years.

Machida took a world of shit for being boring until he ko'd Silva and Evans... then he was God. But now all of a sudden, he's got "holes in his game"? He's been "figured out"?

Everyone was big on Shane Carwin, then his one Twitter post cause a riot saying "Fuck him!" Two weeks later, it's a love affair again because he actually interacted with CP.

Forrest Griffin - fan favorite - oops, got beat down by Anderson Silva... now he's a joke with no heart.

Every time the wind blows, 98% of this forum changes their mind who they like and why. As mods of a site, it'd help to be a bit more objective with the writing, but that doesn't discount your being entitled to an opinion. If this were a blog, there'd be no problem leaning one way or the other in the reporting. I still love the site and considered it more of a news reporting than a couple guys with opinions, but maybe I'm assuming CP is more objective than it is. I don't know. Doesn't really matter.

Mazzagati always sucks. We know that. Cecil Peoples must know something or he wouldn't be in the position he's in. I've yet to see anyone get "robbed" where it was so black and white, clear cut that it was indisputable... yet it went the wrong way. These close fights and all the shit surrounding this fight is just a matter of opinion and some apparently don't agree. Yelling louder than the guy before you or posting the most doesn't mean shit. Three judges all saw it the same way. Get over it. I couldn't care less who won in the end - though I hoped for Machida - but all this crying and bullshit over getting people fired, signing petitions, questioning their ability... makes you all sound like BJ Penn. You know... the guy you all went on for MONTHS about over the last St Pierre fight to shut his whining fucking mouth and stop being such a bitch.

Machida's screwed either way. If he knocks his head off in the 1st next time, we'll just log in here to see that "it doesn't matter because Rua won the first time." And if Rua wins, there'll be nutsucking and six months of kickboxing coverage and mystique until he loses his next fight and then you can hate on him for a new reason.

Goog Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:44

And yes... that's a long post. Fuck off. I know.

BFG Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 13:45

Cecil is a f*cktard! he should try getting leg kicked before he tries judging again.

DaltonSwayze Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:01

Clyde Says:
Mon, 10/26/2009 - 12:38

Why not make every fight like Gracie/Sakuraba and be done with it Swayze?

It would be more pure, certainly. I understand why they do it the way they do: in order to create more marketable fights. Shorter fights where a decision is practically a coin flip means more guys will try to finish, so I understand, but I don't like it, especially when it leads to ambiguous decisions.

MediumRare Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:01

CECIL PEOPLES BEATS HIS WIFE

Hang with me and I'll explain.

If you ever listen to a wife-beater they'll tell you their wife makes them do it. "The bitch asked for it."

That type of logic leads you to believe that Machida maintained Octagon control.

Cause: Machida runs backwards
Effect: Shogun runs after him
Conclusion: Machida controlled Shogun

Cause: Bitch doesn't make me a sandwich
Effect: She gets a black eye
Conclusion: The stupid wench made me do it.

ijustcreatedana... Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:13

Just a quick add to the conga line

Paging Dan Evensen...

mytie Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:19

Legs kicks help win fights but they don’t win belts. In my option you need to go for the kill to take a belt, Machida can take leg and body shots all day. It should have been a draw if anything.

BigCountrysChol... Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:33

In lieu of my suggestion for a "Top 10 Kevin Iole Shill Moments", I now am begging Cagepotato to PLEASE write an article entitled "Cecil Peoples' Top 10 Judging Blunders"

artigale Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:36

Goog. Is this your first time to a forum? lol You seam genuinely surprised by this.

Viper29 Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:36

By People's logic, Kalib Starnes is the best MMA fight to ever grace the Octagon.

ijustcreatedana... Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:43

@BCC
nah - top fights ended by leg kick, obv.

danomite Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 14:57

shogun should be allowed to demonstrate his leg kicks to cecil peoples so that he may experience their effectiveness first hand. we should be allowed to bet on how many leg kicks cecil takes before he goes down too, and peoples should have to pay the winner out of his own pocket.

Dubbayoo Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 15:03

I suppose "Sensei" Cecil Peoples never saw Rizzo vs. Severn.

How odd, cuz he never misses ANYTHING!

Strife Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 15:06

Im with Viper29 on this one. If making someone chase you is "effective aggression" Then I think we need to reevaluate the Kalib Starnes fight.

Im gonna give that fucker the Rockhammer

byebyestrikeforce Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 15:22

You guys do know there is some question as to the validity of these quotes right?

therail Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 15:28

Cecil Peoples scored World War II 49-46 in favor of the Germans. He determined their early bombing of London and France did more damage and their late strategy of allowing the Allies to invade Germany showed that they were dictating where the war was taking place.

philippekchrun Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 16:18

Cecil should check out fightmetric.com... there's the truth!

NipGrip Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 16:39

FIRE CECIL "CICI'S PIZZA" PEOPLES!!!

Bovice Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 16:57

@therail

Not gonna lie, that was incredibly fucking funny.

Shogun got robbed. Like I said before, I'm not going to be on the Machida bandwagon ever.

Than Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 18:10

Cecil Peoples needs to get leg kicked a few times. I have only ever really been hit hard with leg kicks padded with shin guards, and I'll tell you those suck total balls. Getting hit even just two times in the same spot with solid kicks and you are for sure feeling it the rest of the night and the next day.

kezza-aus Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 18:11

I'm sure Paul "Polar Bear" Varlens from about UFC 9 or 10 would also disagree with Cecil Peoples about leg kicks not ending fightsi

Dmonicideals Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 18:19

I will admit that Cecil is spewing shit about leg kicks not being an effective tool, but he almost has a point.

Almost.

Leg kicks CAN end a fight, but you actually have to knock someone down with them and take their legs away to have it happen. It is clear by the number of knockdown/takedowns that Shogun had, that he DID NOT accomplish that. Had he landed an single TD, or even once knocked Machida to the ground because his legs hurt so bad, then yes, the kicks would have been compelling. He didn't, so all they did was slow Machida down a bit. Both fighters had poor strategies comng into the fight, and neither pressed for the win.

Yes, leg kicks CAN end fights, but Shogun wasn't anywhere near ending this fight with them. In the Forrest/Rampage fight, it took, what, 1 round of kicks to put Jackson on the ground? Shogun couldn't even land a takedown in the 5th round, his kicks weren't doing the job fast enough. Maybe if it was a 10 round fight, he could have knocked Lyoto down once, or even wobbled him.

Dmonicideals Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 18:29

@Gman:

No, you are exactly right with your example. Forrest KNOCKED DOWN Rampage with his kicks, and even completed takedowns after that.

When in the fight did Machida get knocked down by those kicks? How mant TDs did Shogun have after he brutalized Lyotos legs? When did Lyoto give up because he couldn't stand?

Had ANY of those things happened this fight could have definitely gone Shoguns way. But they didn't. And now we have people crying in droves about how Shogun got screwed.

Shogun screwed himself by hanging back and thinking that his kicks were going to get him by, even though every kick he threw was countered by punches. Neither fighter went after it, neither fighter put a stamp on the fight to make it his, and when you leave the decision to the judges, you are asking to get fucked, especially when you clearly didn't do everything you could to win.

worldblowmetour Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 20:02

I was shocked from the decision at first , but watching the fight again Shogun just threw leg kicks and took a couple shots to his face in the process. If you watch the fight again shogun didnt land much.I feel in a close fight like that the champ should keep the belt.You should be able to beat the champ decisivly.

bbbcswr Says:

Mon, 10/26/2009 - 20:28

i agree with all the cecil bashing, but don't forget there was two other judges who scored the fight for machida. I guess they at least had the smarts not to try and explain their retarded scoring. bash on