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Chris Leben’s Submission Indecision

(Props: MMA-Core)

Depending on your interpretation of what you see here, either Chris Leben couldn’t decide whether he wanted to tap out to Jake Rosholt‘s arm-triangle choke, or else he passed out mid-tap.  Either way, Yves Lavigne came very close to committing the same sin that he did in the Matt Brown/Pete Sell fight.  Watch as he almost jumps in and then backs off when Leben’s legs buck up.  First you think that leg movement is some kind of half-assed attempt at an escape.  Then you watch Leben involuntarily flopping around during his post-fight nap, and it seems like maybe he was already out at that point. 

Tough night for the fighters from Portland.  Maybe the big question is, will Leben and Ed Herman still have jobs after the UFC’s trip into their hometown?


Cagepotato Comments

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Mike Milbury- August 31, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Oh, for fuck's sake, the original post was a crack at Yves being a little slow on the stoppage (As he's been hit-or-miss for the past little while), not to start a discussion about Leben and chokeholds. I don't care about your lecture on choke holds.
Blackleg- August 31, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Awesome you two met in the semi's and have been fast friends ever since!

@JDog: Which he did. How Leben's body reacted is certainly alarming to watch but it's far from a rarity.

@MM: Way to crawfish douche-bag. I made no threats, nor did I make an allusions to my vast knowledge other than to point out that in a MMA match there exists the very real possibility that one my be caught in a choke hold and *gasp* unconsciousness might swiftly follow before escape can be made. Doesn't sound like you have the stomach for this sort of thing, I dunno - maybe try being a polo fan. They have horsies!
Mike Milbury- August 31, 2009 at 10:58 am
@Blackleg: God, it was hyperbole. Calm the fuck down. Typical chest-beating "know it all" fan.
J-Dog- August 31, 2009 at 9:52 am
@Blackleg: getting choked out doesn't mean dying, but if the carotid arteries are continued to be pinched off after loss of consciousness, death quickly follows. It's very important that a choke be immediately released. It's a dangerous situation and that's why refs need to stop a fight when a fighter is choked out, not just watch them sit there and convulse after they are napping.
Blackleg- August 31, 2009 at 9:38 am
Bitch please, since when is getting choked out = dying?

Take your sorry ass back to TKD Point-Fighting Tourneys.
Mike Milbury- August 31, 2009 at 6:50 am

Lavigne is doing what he's supposed to be doing: Let the fighters die while looking at the tap.

Fixed it for you.
Blackleg- August 31, 2009 at 6:35 am
"i dunno, in my opinion yves lavigne shouldve known that it was game over anyways"

So now the Ref should decide when a fighter is *probably* screwed and stop it?

Like Fight Fan said, tapping is all on the fighter's shoulders - they know better than anyone when they are fucked. Leben likely knew he was but decided he'd try to gut it out.

Lavigne is doing what he's supposed to be doing: Let the fighters fight.
Fight Fan- August 31, 2009 at 5:52 am
Complete non-issue. If you don't want to sleep, tap. Wait 'till the last second, and you may not get your tap off in time. If Leben or anyone in his corner are complaining today, they are idiots. The ref intervened at the right time.
Komodo- August 30, 2009 at 10:32 pm
That flopping and twitching is some ugly shit man.
Cock Chestner- August 30, 2009 at 10:22 pm
that was a pretty sweet choke. what happened leben, does he even train with any pro fighters out there in hawaii?
clutchy hopkins- August 30, 2009 at 9:05 pm
but i wont lie, might just be overreacting a bit. just considering who it was and what was happenin, i dunno
clutchy hopkins- August 30, 2009 at 9:02 pm
i dunno, in my opinion yves lavigne shouldve known that it was game over anyways, doesnt matter if leben was trying to tap or not. to me it looks like leben attempted the tap then took last time desperation halfway through. i really think that lavigne shouldve just known it was over after being in that sub for that long anyways. like fuck, even everyone in the room i was in was saying "okay, its over now" and for some reason lavigne gives him a couple more seconds to literally go right out and start convulsing. makes me seem like hes more concerned with what hes doing, not whats happening. makes me a bit sick to my stomach
Deadpanda- August 30, 2009 at 3:04 pm
To me it looked like Leben went to tap the first time & went out right there. The subsequent 'punch' & 'kick' could possibly be muscle spasms.

I don't think Lavigne did a bad job here. Looking at it real time, it looks like Leben was waving him off. Refs arn't psychic & Lavigne has been catching shit from fighters & fans for 'stopping fights early.'

If fighters want the ref to give them every single little chance that they could possibly want, this is what happens; you nap or you break.
KidDinomite- August 30, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Leben is ineffective in his fights because he telegraphs his shots way too much. Plus he has no kicks for range. Those punches that he threw looked terrible and made me laugh because they're reminiscent of playground brawl punches and not something one of the best fighters in the world would be doing. Leben is irrelevant in the UFC now, especially if you think he'll get a title shot at Anderson Silva. And if he somehow did, Silva would win in the first minute or so. I don't hate Leben but the guy has to evolve in a big way if he wants to be a competitor, one punch knockout power or not...
the glza- August 30, 2009 at 10:48 am
i feel like herman still has a ways to go... he's not ufc right now but if he goes and gains experience for a while somewhere else and he'll be better in a couple of years. unless his knee is a serious problem... yikes.

leben is a whole other story. that kid hit his peak before silva, and i don't think he's got much more to give. i'd give him a shot at redemption and try to squeeze out what's left of any drawing power he has once, but put him up against someone he'll definitely lose to. maybe another shot at bisping and try to restart that gravy train with some trash-talking antics, or bring him down a weightclass and make him fight parisyan. high chance of highlight-reel material there for both guys.

come to think of it, the shocking KO of maia was bound to happen sooner or later, i just wish we could've avoided seeing it happen so quickly. marquardt still has to answer a lot of questions about his boxing if he wants to have a chance against silva. i was hoping to see him pick apart an opponent, not overwhelm right out the gate. maia, however, should have no questions about what his homework's gonna be for the next year.
Walrus- August 30, 2009 at 10:27 am
Ed Herman is the biggest bitch/whinning faggot I've ever seen in the octagon.

You remember him on TUF. Guy spent how many fucking episodes being salty in general, and constantly reminding the viewers how upset he was that Tito didn't pick him.

I hate Kendall Grove, but I was happy when he whooped Ed's ass.
scumbag- August 30, 2009 at 9:49 am
short fuse herman is gonna need some bubble bath rehab time
831 Son- August 30, 2009 at 9:48 am
John McCarthy is who should be the full time ref of the UFC.

But Leben obviously was going to tap because he knew he was done. He tapped like 2 times, kicked away at the ref after that since it wasnt a full tap, thought he can withstand more, then went to sleep. Not really bad reffing, though some of his other stoppages are horrible.
Hamma Fist Elbow Bam-Bam- August 30, 2009 at 9:27 am
Herb Dean should ref every fight.
Jeepman- August 30, 2009 at 9:15 am
I agree with looks like he was throwing his last punch before his short trip to Napville.
UFC fan- August 30, 2009 at 8:47 am
Dude if Roids were trying hard to get him back up, ha.
KICK BACK UP CHRIS!! haaaaaaaaaaa
the 2 I hate most lost, it was a great night. To bad Herman (Munster) knee didnt BREAK, fuck him, I hope both these turds get flushed to strikeforce.
Hamma Fist Elbow Bam-Bam- August 30, 2009 at 8:43 am
Held out as long as he could and then passed out halfway into his tap. Yves Lavigne is fucking horrible, how much longer are they going to let him be a ref?
Blackleg- August 30, 2009 at 8:09 am
Looked more like a half-hearted punch and an attempt to kick out just as he was going out.
newdeal- August 30, 2009 at 8:02 am
Leben looked very ineffective against a young fighter I think its pretty much over for him. I think he was tapping because he knew he was going out and he went out half way through his tap out
The Clinch- August 30, 2009 at 7:56 am
I thought it was a tap but at least the fight was over maybe 3 seconds after the fact without Leben sustaining much, if any, damage. It does appear as if Leben kicks the ref away, so who knows..

Leben doesn't seem the type to tap to chokes. Jason MacDonald put him away too.

So now he's 8 - 5 in the UFC? I'd think he'd have to lose again to be cut, there's other fighters more deserving of being let go.