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Dana White: Angel of Mercy or Hostage-Taker?

("No one is going to tell [Liddell] when he’s going to stop fighting," says John Hackleman. Photo courtesy of MMA Ring Report.)

In his prime, he was a Destroyer of Worlds. But the Chuck Liddell we saw lose to Mauricio Rua at UFC 97 earlier this month was so deteriorated that retirement talk was inevitable. Liddell’s footwork was achingly slow, and Rua proved that the holes in the Iceman’s defense could be punctured even after Liddell had spent months trying to patch them up. (Though maybe not.) These facts were clearer to Dana White than anyone else. Directly after the event, White announced that Chuck would absolutely be retiring from the sport, profits be damned. Later, he promised "a fucking war" if Liddell refused to hang up his gloves, ostensibly because he didn’t want to see his longtime friend permanently injured.

Well, Chuck hasn’t retired yet. And Dana might get that fucking war after all.

Here’s what Liddell’s longtime trainer John Hackleman told AroundtheOctagon this weekend:

“Chuck can do whatever wants to do. It’s disappointing. He lost to a great champion and that’s no reason to retire. His record is no indicator to retire. He’ll retire when he’s lost the desire to fight or he’s getting hurt. He’s fought 100 times and only been knocked out twice…no one is going to tell him when he’s going to stop fighting…
A lot of people thought Randy Couture was done at heavyweight and he went to Light Heavyweight and won a title. He lost to Chuck a couple of times then they said he was done again and he went to heavyweight and won another title. It’s up to Chuck…
If it went to court you can’t stop someone from their livelihood. If he’s under contract with the UFC they have to give him a fight or if they don’t they have to let him go. They just can’t say you aren’t going to fight. Chuck is still under contract and they have to give him a fight or let him go.

It doesn’t seem like many people are talking about this aspect of the recent Chuck Liddell saga, so I just wanted to reiterate: Liddell’s forced retirement may primarily be due to Dana White’s concern for his friend’s health, but the UFC has Chuck over a barrel, legally speaking, in the same way that they tied up Randy Couture in 2007-2008. Because he has one fight left on his UFC contract, Liddell is currently unable to compete for another MMA organization. If the UFC lets him fight one more time, then he’s free to leave them and make money for one of the UFC’s rivals. To prevent this situation, the UFC is simply choosing to not give him that last fight.

The end result is Chuck Liddell being shut out of making a living as a fighter. (Remember, you can be released from your UFC contract if you decide to completely retire from the sport, but if you ever emerge from retirement, you still have to honor whatever was left on your contract when you left it; otherwise, you’ll need a good lawyer and a year to spend in court.) I’m not saying it’s a wise move for Chuck Liddell to continue competing at this point. But when it comes down to it, retirement should be his choice, and Dana White’s effort to kick him out of the sport feels ethically problematic, and partially motivated by business interests.

If Chuck goes the stubborn route, I think he’ll see his buddy-buddy relationship with Dana turn sour in a hurry. Because as much as DW doesn’t want to see Chuck get knocked out again, he really doesn’t want to see the Iceman headline a card for Strikeforce.



  1. rokabee Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:38

    Dana White shouldnt have the power to retire fighters, only to drop them, a fighter should be able to decide for himself.
  2. drewplata Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:43

    I thought it was the champion clause that screwed Randy? Pls remove 1st comment.
  3. Fedor Sucks Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:44

    Well no shit sherlock
  4. Cage Rage Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:47

    If anyone needs to retire its John Hackleman .I mean who let's thier best fighter in the camp get KTFO twice and then use the same Hackleman Plan for every fight I mean you have to evolve as a fighter thats why you see people like GSP, Rashed Evans, train with new camps and and diffrent opponents.So you don't go out there and look the same as you did in your last fight.
  5. Ken Shamrock Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:49

    Dana has a habit of forcing fighters out before their time is up.
  6. Nicidimus Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:51

    I honestly think Chuck should retire, but ultimately the decision should be up to him. The only way someone should be forcably retired should be for medical reasons, and none have been brought up yet to my knowledge. LET CHUCK FIGHT!! LET CHUCK FIGHT!! LET CHUCK FIGHT!!
  7. Koeikan Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:52

    Hmm... Hackleman really doesn't have any fighters...maybe he needs Chuck to fight more than Chuck needs to fight. I don't see anything in his statement about how Chuck doesn't want to retire yet. Why do I have a feeling that Hackleman isn't looking out for Liddell's best interest? At the very least, he should be refraining from making any comments to the media until ****Chuck**** makes up his mind. This is really, really dissapointing to see if any of his motivation for keeping Chuck fighting is so that he can keep a paycheck. Realistically, how fast does Hackleman and "The Pit" fall into obscurity if Chuck retires? Answer: Fucking fast.
  8. NateGetsIrate Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 01:59

    Telling Chuck he can't fight anymore is pretty fucked up considering Chuck only knows how to do 2 things. And if he's not doing the first thing anymore, you know he's gonna have trouble finding quality tail who want to do that other thing with him.
  9. i live in a trashcan Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:01

    sure, let chuck continue to fight and get ktfo'd, or he retires. the choice should be his, but that doesn't mean his bosses/friends/whoever cannot suggest a decision in his best interest. it would be a tragedy if chuck chose to continue to fight, and his legacy became a distant memory. in other words, it's his decision what he should do, but he should most definitely consider retirement in order to leave with dignity (as opposed to fighting until he is forced to travel around in a baby carriage with hackleman pushing it for him)
  10. Levi Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:10

    Does anyone really want to see Chuck turn into Shamrock?
  11. mackojr Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:15

    Don't be an idiot. The Pit will be just fine!!! Even if it isn't Hack isn't hurting for money, he's standing by his fighter. That is what good trainers do. As for Hack not having Chuck's best interests in mind, of course he does. Just like no one but chuck can make the decision to retire only he can make the decision to fight. Hack and Chuck are so close I'm sure Chuck has taken care of him Finacially
  12. LMH Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:18

    Completely agree with Koeikan. Dana said Chuck can continue working for the company, so it shouldn't really be about the money. Chuck will still get his. But Hackleman's not going to get a cut of Chuck's paycheck if Iceman's not fighting. Chuck doesn't need to fight. Hackleman needs Chuck to fight.
  13. aj Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:18

    Dana White has a lot of balls to speak on Chuck's behalf. It was definitely unethical on his part considering the conflict of interests.
  14. PingPong Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:28

    WarGods 2010: C. Liddell vs R. Clifton
  15. Anonymous Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:29

    If Chuck does get one more fight, who the heck would he compete against? Any ideas?
  16. Monkey Punch. Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:43

    they should put him against the loser of rashad/machida. the pit aint shit without cant teach power that is why no one else is ever coming out of the pit.
  17. CAPS LOCK HAL Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:47

  18. ossBASHA Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:51

    Dana White forcing Chuck into retirement is competely uncool. I think Chuck should keep fighting B Class guys in 2nd tier promotions. He has a lower chance of getting hurt and makes his money. DW knows that this is the best option for Chuck, hence his hardlined strategy. The best thing for the Chuck and the sport is Liddell joining up with Strikeforce. Too bad the chances of that happening in 2009 is close to none.
  19. Hexed79 Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 02:54

    On the one hand, the right to your career should be inalienable. On the other hand, it takes guts and business savvy for Dana White to lay down the retirement gauntlet for the highest-profile fighter MMA has ever seen. MMA is already on somewhat shaky ground in the states, and in 10-15 years, if former fighters start dropping like flies the way pro wrestlers and NFL linemen have a tendency to do, can we really trust the sport will stay regulated? Chuck can't compete at a reasonable level in his weight class anymore. If he continues fighting, it needs to be against total cans, and I can't imagine he's the Shamrock type. Professional athletes of any ilk have difficulty determining when it's time to call it quits. In this sport, perhaps it's in the athletes' best interests for someone to pull the plug. "REMEMBER ALI!"
  20. MMA's Scalia Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:02

    Your characterization of UFC contracts isn't quite correct. In addition to having a certain number of fights on the contract, the contract is also for a term of months. The contract ends at the earlier of the 2 dates, either the required number of fights or the term. So while chuck has one fight left, they can't neglect to give him that fight forever. After, a certain number of months the contract ends even if that fight doesn't happen. Then Chuck would be free to do what he wants. However, if chuck "retires" then chuck will technically be under UFC contract forever. That's really why DW wants him to retire because if he officially doesn't retire the contract is up eventually whether that last fight happens or not.
  21. Sodak Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:08

    Quinton and Rua are probabally the best in the division Rashad got lucky Jardine was kinda embarrasing but he just took quinton three rounds not a big deal still a lot of fighters in the UFC he'd kill. i'd rather see chuck fight anyday than some tuf bum put him on an undercard. he's got a few years left.
  22. Anonymous Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:17

    fuck hackleman. he just doesn't want to see his meal ticket retire. if he were really chuck's friend he'd want to see him stop getting his brains knocked around the inside of his skull. I hope Liddell and Hackelman get their wish and he gets knocked out a few more times. Honestly, who's not gonna knock Liddell out these days? The guy has major flaws that everyone knows about and he hasn't changed any of them. are they gonna put him against pure grapplers the rest of his career? Liddell's been the UFC's star for years now. if he doesn't have enough money saved to retire then that's his own damn fault.
  23. KimboSlicesofPie Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:19

    I want to see Chuck continue to fight. His glass jaw will be the source of many HIGHLIGHT reel knockouts. Bring on the Octi-naps!
  24. KU JUDO Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:26

    Washed up fighter, washed up trainer. This is what will happen: Chuck will "retire" for a year or two before pulling a Brett Favre. Then he will have a "comeback" fight against either A) another washed up fighter, B) an old rival, C) a combination of the first two, or D) a young guy who will stomp the shit out of him. Chuck will be satisfied to get the closure to his career, Dana will be satisfied because he gets one last huge PPV out of Chuck, and Hack will be satisfied because...oh wait, no he won't, because the rest of his fighters are horseshit. He'll probably sell his gym and sign up as an assistant to Greg Jackson.
  25. Dedstrk Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:31

    I've been saying this all along. It's not about DW being worried about Chuck's health as much as it is about business. Could you imagine if Chuck went elsewhere after he fought his last fight under his UFC contract? That's the main reason why DW is doing this.
  26. just a fight fan Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:34

    Fuck looking out for his friend. This is the fight business. Plus, as much as people wana piss on Dana White, the UFC is the big leagues and everything else is the minors. The best LHW's in the world fight in the UFC which means that if Chuck finishes his contract and goes elsewhere to fight, not only can he make HUGE money because of name recognition, but he will look good doing it because most elite 205ers in other organizations are just mid carders or gate keepers at best in the UFC. FREE CHUCK, FREE CHUCK!!!
  27. Anonymous Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:47

    the fighters could always start a union and really fuck over the fight organizations
  28. mook Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:47

    Yeah, put the guy who lost 4/5 of his last fights against the champ. Good job.
  29. Dave Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 03:55

    I think we need to take a longer look at the Brock Lesnar/WWE lawsuit, as that was a much closer example of how this could play out than the Randy situation. Randy didn't want to fight for the UFC, but they had his contract and had the ability to enforce it. If Chuck WANTS to fight for the UFC, the group that has his contract, and they will not sign a fight for him, then he will very easily beat them in court, just like Lesnar did years ago with the WWE.
  30. One Two Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 04:09

    hostage taker for sure.
  31. vinsullo Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 04:24

    I truly feel that this is not going to be a good situation for anyone involved. I believe that Hackleman and Liddell are true friends unlike what Dana thinks friends are. Dana is their boss and he is the kid with all the toys. They are not his friends. He always says that everyone is is "really close friend" and always has to mention how long. Dana's head is too big for himself to handle nowadays. Screw Dana and his big mouth. He is no longer good for the sport. They should absolutely give Chuck his last fight. Liddell and his camp have some perfectly good reasons to go on. He got knocked out twice big deal. Jardine squeaked a decision on Liddell so let's just chalk that up to good fight and Wanderlei was a war! His button is exposed via Rampage, EVANS (punch from hell!) and Shogun. I can't explain it other than to say that he can't take such a good punch anymore but he did against and Wandy so I don't understand. His ability to take a power punch has declined so fast it's strange and he should get some seriously detailed testing done on his brain and nervouse system. I'm definitely not looking forward to watching Dana start some sucker shit over Liddell wanting to finish his career the way he choses and giving him his last fight. You never know in this sport, Liddell could suprise a lot of people.
  32. gary4love Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 04:57

    Agree, a friend said that on tall dating site ____Tall mingle.C O M____,which is a dating site for all tall friends and tall singles,especially models and basketball players.
  33. Anonymous Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 05:05

    Is there a time limit on how long they have him under contract?
  34. vinsullo Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 05:18

    I'm not sure what the contract life is, I've heard a lot of different speculationd but nothing concrete about UFCs' disclosures regarding the length of the time or if there even is any expiration. It may not be a time frame it may just be a fight deal and that's that. Who really knows. If someone isn't Chuck or his management/lawyers or Dana and the UFC then it's all hearsay.
  35. Gorgzilla Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 05:41

    Soo... Anyone still wondering why Fedor won't sign a contract with the UFC? It's like a contract with the Devil! All fun and games until Lucifer want's to shove his icy cock up your ass!
  36. vinsullo Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 06:26

    Dana can say anything he wants about Fedor but the fact is Fedor will clean out his lame UFC HW division easily. The bottom line is we will never get to see the fights WE want to PAY for. Instead, we'll get the newcomer jerk off fights and te hype matchups. Oh and 3 good cards per year! The UFC PPVs' are not worth $45. $29 maybe. If we could get enough people to grow some balls to not get one then things would change but it will never happen. Strikeforce, Affliction and Elite XC put the fights together we want to see. The superfights! Not the 4 year UFC program. I am really beginning to hate the UFC. Every event is a let down. Hype, hype, hype, hype, hype and fizzle. Then we listen to Dana try to convince us of what a "war" a fight was or how "incredible" a "battle" was. I fucking hate it but what can we do?
  37. tweek Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 06:50

    he needs to retire...he's gonna get knocked out again unless he fights a wrestler with absolutely no striking...but if he does fight tito vs chuck 3 in strikeforce?
  38. Adebisi Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 07:00

    A stiif jab from Tito would put Chuck on queer street at this point. His chin is gone.
  39. Andre's Pee Pee Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 07:49

    KO'd Twice? I count three times out of the last four fights. Maybe when my man got KTFO against Rashad it was so bad that his trainer can't remember it. So which one does not count,...Rampage stiffen his legs, Rashad putting his fist through Chucks face, or the latest debacle where Chuck had everything to lose and still came out looking out of shape and slow. Seriuosly, Chuck, as the best fighters get slow and old, fans forget their accomplishments and look at the current version to make an opinion on who you are/were. Look at Ken, Tito, Gracie, Cro Crop, Chuck...etc. Hang em up, and take DW up on that PR thing. That sounds like the Fucking life. Being Dana's right hand man. You seem to have a way with making DW's gay and whore bashing seem not that bad.
  40. just some dong Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 07:56

    after the outcome of the first two Tito v. Chuck fights, I'd have to say what's the point of having a third. But then I think of how slow and terrible Chuck looked against Rua and Evans, and the steady decline that brought him to this point, and the fight actually sounds interesting because maybe... just... maybe... Tito has a shot this time.
  41. Danal White Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 07:57

    "REMEMBER ALI!" Yes fucktard, remember the Ali Act. Wait till Dona White pisses off the right faggot politician and they decide that there is no reason why the Ali Act doesnt apply to all fight disciplines. So yeah, remember that braindead turd they trot out for free PR at dog and pony shows all over the country and remember WHY its called the Mosuckhmed Ali Safety Act. You want to legalize MMA in NY? Fine. You say MMA should be treated like boxing? No prob. Let it be treated like any other fighting event, with the same commissions and stuff but you also then have them protected from the sleazoids off the sport. If you care about the fighters health and careers, then you have to make this a two for one deal. Of course, you KNOW Zuffa would fight tooth and nail for their right to fuck athletes like Fitch who busted his ass against GSP and then gets treated like some thai child prostitute by his bosses.
  42. gesus Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 08:03

    dana should just give him a can..make him a gatekeeper. yea its depressing, but doesnt it solve a lot of the problems? the iceman doesnt need to headline with the best, well better, contenders now until he changes his game.
  43. Adebisi Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 08:25

    Who the hell doesn't want to see Chuck Liddell fall face first in the canvas again? It's a beautiful thing.
  44. CAPS LOCK HAL Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 08:44

  45. Hamma Fist Elbow Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 09:22

    I think Chuck is still way more viable fighter than Wandy. That's the dude that needs to retire.
  46. Lickmyfart Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 09:52

    Dude Hackleman needs to shut the fuck up because he's the reason why Chuck is getting his ass kicked. Hackleman and the Pit don't have any quality trainers or partners, and chuck is not getting prepared the way he should. Who else comes from that camp??! Von Flue??! Hackleman is complaining because he would not have any business if Chuck retires. Chuck needs to go Greg Jackson or something, a coach that won't sugar coat his short comings.
  47. sPeLLcHeCkEr Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 10:28

    Can Chuck make weight at 185? I mean if Wandy's doing it... HMMM.
  48. A-non Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 10:46

    Chuck should train with a team with top fighters. If you train with the best you have to get better or get your ass kicked and see where you stand. There is a few fighters at LHW that a fight would be interesting like Bonnar, Franklin, Hamill, Henderson, Stann and Vera.
  49. CAPS LOCK HAL, Says:

    Wed, 04/29/09 - 11:22

  50. Anonymous Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 12:31

    Kyle Maynard would knock Chuck out at this point.
  51. Buzzsaw Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 02:00

    Liddell vs Colemen........? battle of the wrinkles

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 04:05

  53. The MMA Bowler Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 05:12

    Please... hang up the gloves... Jesus Christ. I'm sick of him getting knock out cause he doesnt keep is hands up. MMA has changed and he wont. For once dana is doing the right thing. Lets be real. Who can Chuck really beat now a days huh? Kimbo slice could knock his ass out.... Okay maybe not but you get my point.
  54. Craig Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 05:32

    Chuck vs. Dana to determine if Chuck should be allowed to continue to fight.
  55. norremo is an idiot Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 07:26

    The ONLY fight I wanna see is Liddell vs. Dana White. I'd love to see Chuck open his eyes to the douche-baggery and vomit up the contempt for this asshole. Dana White is a pussy who doesn't care about shit. Fuck him.
  56. VegasBJJ Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 09:56

    The Pit always has Gan McGee (lol)
  57. THE DEMON Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 09:57

    I say Chuck needs to fight his last fight...come in and DOMINATE who ever it is, and then tell DW and company to fuck off...this forced retirement shit is garbage. It should be Chuck's decision or for medical reasons, none other. Then Chuck should go fight for Strikeforce or one of the Japanese promos, just to get under DW's skin...
  58. kerouac Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 10:26

    Let Chuck fight Ken Shamrock - 2 GEEZERS at CAESARS
  59. Anonymous Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 10:46

    I hate to say it, but Chuck Liddell doesn't need the money from continuing to fight, but John Hackelman probably does need the money continuing to come in from Chuck fighting.
  60. Adebisi Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 12:06

    Chuck Liddell sucks Dana White's Cock.
  61. SHAWN_SEC Says:

    Thu, 04/30/09 - 01:07

    Chuck was knocked out 3 times. Not 2.. Maybe 2 times in a row, but 3 put together. Rampage hooked his face off, then Rashad took his face off, now Showgun blew his face off. And they all were devistating KO'S. Chuck should stick to training people. When everyone already has your number and you dont change it, what makes you think people are going to stop calling and hitting you on the ringer? He needs to change his style if he is going to fight again. Shit even on the UFC game i knocked that mofo out with an overhand right! haha
  62. Anonymous Says:

    Tue, 05/05/09 - 04:25

    if dana doesn't let chuck keep fighting you are going to see the white/liddel friendship turn into the white/ortiz feud.
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