This is part two of my talk for this SportsIllustrated.com article with New York State Assemblyman Bob Reilly. If you missed it, you can read part one here. Once again, I’d like to thank Mr. Reilly for talking with me and explaining his position. You should also check out the SI article for some rebuttal comments from the UFC’s Marc Ratner.
You say you think MMA would be financially harmful to the state. How would it harm New York to allow the sport and the UFC to hold events there?
You know, I got the study the UFC did, and based on their studies, they use Buffalo, but I use Albany since they’re similar cities, we have an arena here in Albany that seats about 19,000. They would say they would bring in about $4 million in the live gate here. They say the tax revenue would add about half a million to the local economy. And I say, yes, but at the same time three and a half million would head back to Vegas.
And here’s where I get a little heady, because just about every casino in this country is surrounded by poverty. If you go out to Turning Stone in our state, where the people who run it say it’s the only successful economic development we have, but in every case, whether it’s Turning Stone or Atlantic City or Las Vegas, these are sumptuous palaces surrounded by poverty. And that’s who runs the UFC is these Las Vegas casino owners. So if they come here the same thing would happen. You can’t take three and a half million bucks out of the economy and expect it to work. We made the mistake already of thinking that gambling will save us from this economic recession, but let’s not add to it and think this is the savior.
I don’t understand the link to casinos and gambling, other than the fact that the owners of the UFC also own some casinos that are separate, as a business, from the UFC. Wouldn’t bringing in tourism money and having activity at these arenas create jobs and infuse the local economy with money from other states?
They come for a day and work in the arena. But if you look at the money, the hundreds of millions of dollars that they’re making, this is a very small part. The lobbyists for mixed martial arts have said to me on several occasions, anything you need, tell us and we’ll get it for you. The guys from Vegas flew in here again last week or the week before, and the lobbyist who was with him said this again, and I told him that I’d already asked for the information on the revenue generated from pay-per-view, and they haven’t done it. They say, ‘Oh, I’ll get that to you.’ But here I sit.
And I don’t like the fallback position of tax revenue that, you know, where is it? But again, you can’t take an area and take money out of it and expect it to flourish. What you’re saying to me is, aren’t they putting half a million in tax revenue into the local economy? But do they take three and a half million back to Vegas? Yes.
So the UFC says they’d take three and a half million back to Vegas out of the four million they generate…
They don’t say that. They say it would generate a half a million dollars worth of business.
Isn’t that still better than nothing? Couldn’t people turn around and say, Bob Reilly is only against this because the state isn’t getting a big enough cut?
But Ben, we started with four million. Now we’re down to half a million? Let me say, the question is does this help the economic status of New York, and does this help the economic status of the individual municipalities where the events would be held? It’s not, ‘Bob Reilly is against capitalism’ or anything like that.
They’ve done a study on it using New York City and Buffalo and I don’t dispute that. But the people who own this Ultimate Fighting aren’t millionaires, they’re billionaires. They’re Las Vegas casino owners. I was in Las Vegas about six weeks ago. At that time, the government was set to cut the wages of teachers and public employees by six percent. That’s not a community. At the same time, at one event out there, the lowest priced ticket was $340 or something like that. My number may be a little wrong but it’s about that. I don’t see how that helps build an economy.
They will come to somewhere like Albany and say, this is creating jobs. But this doesn’t create jobs, it just takes money out of the economy. And I understand that some of the money comes from outside the area. But the bottom line is, you have four million dollars in the area, and it generates a half a million of economic activity, three and a half million leaves your area. I’m not against gambling and I’m not against casinos, but I think we’ve become as a society and as a government in New York, too dependent on gambling as a source of revenue.
I hear you repeatedly making these comparisons to gambling and casinos. Is that only because the Fertittas own casinos?
Not just because, but in part. I do compare the two activities somewhat. But what has mixed martial arts done for Las Vegas? Many of those casinos are now going broke. The city is in a bad financial situation. So it hasn’t done too much for their economy.
To get away from the economic argument for a moment, what about the issue of personal liberty for the fighters who want to participate in this and make a living in their home state and the fans who want to see it? What do you say to the fighter who says you’re stopping him from making a living just because you find the sport offensive?
I think that’s a very valid question. Another issue that we’re debating at the present moment in New York is whether to allow wine to be sold in grocery stores, rather than just liquor stores. The grocery stores make a good point and there are invariably merits on both sides of the issue. But I’m opposed to it because it would drive most of our small, locally owned liquor stores out of business. In my area of the state, if you want to go to a fish market, a butcher, a bakery, or a florist, you go to the huge supermarket. One of the only things they don’t sell is wine. I want to preserve those small liquor stores because I think they help our economy. But there’s merits on both sides of the issue. So it is here.
The argument you just made, I get many emails that make that argument, but this is the role of government. Government says what you can and can’t do. Government says you can’t drive over a certain speed limit or you can’t sell wine in grocery stores or you can’t stage a dog fight…
Now, hold on, isn’t that an offensive analogy?
People might get angry about the analogy and say the difference is that a person can choose to get into a ring and fight and a dog can’t, but so be it, even boxing is very highly regulated affair. And let me make one other point. This is not Bob Reilly’s issue alone. I have people coming up to me about it all the time. I conducted a poll…
I saw your poll, yes.
…Right, and the poll said 67% of people oppose this. That’s not Bob Reilly saying this, that’s our people. 67% of them. And the UFC has this PR firm, Global Strategies, and they immediately attacked the legitimacy of the poll saying, you said the sport was illegal. Well, what am I supposed to say, it’s legal? It isn’t. But the point is, people don’t want it. They don’t want it.
Realistically, what do you think your chances are of keeping MMA out of New York long term?
You want me to answer honestly?
Please.
Okay. I think that it will not be legalized this year. I think that in the future there might be some radical changes that will be made. For example, the people supporting it…in our original legislation to legalize it the state was to get 3% of the gate. I did some research and found that in other states they got 10%. So I pointed this out and the sponsor of the legislation changed it to read 10%. Now, I’m very interested to see – and I have a background in TV – and I’m very interested in what the revenue is from pay-per-view. I believe the real money in all sports is TV. And so the hundreds of millions of dollars generated in mixed martial arts is in TV, but to get the amount of tax revenue generated by that, they’d have to give us the information on that and they don’t give us the information.
Do you feel like you’re fighting a futile fight against a big company in a kind of David & Goliath story?
Well, the original plan was for them to push this through without anyone noticing. And I went to explain why I was voting against it, and lo and behold the majority of the committee members voted against it. But yes, I am the most visible legislator in opposition to this.
Do I feel like David and Goliath in this? I do somewhat. Just the amounts of money involved alone. They were here recently giving very sizable donations to individual legislators, and they have this whole PR firm. And against that I have myself. So yes, I feel like I’m up against a giant.
(BF)
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Comments
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:32
First? Does that matter? great interview! the juice
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:33
This elected farmer needs to watch MMA highlights of crazy knockouts and freakish submissions...then get started on loving MMA like most of us did.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:38
Wow. unbelievable how this man can just pull associations out of thin air, and avoid plausible associations; such as comparing a combat sport to another combat sport (not a vegas casino, or dog fight!!)
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:38
I do see where he's coming from and he makes very valid points. The only thing you can do is take what the UFC has done from other areas such as Minnesota, Columbus, their Canadian events etc. I would imagine asking their athletic commissions, govermental officals and people living in the surrounding area would benefit either the UFC or Bob Reillys stances.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:41
@kylemac Your right, he makes his other arguments which can seem plausible and ruins them by making absurd associations with dog fighting etc. I forgot Mike "quick" Vick was fighting for a title.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:47
wow, great fucking analogy reilly. A dog fight? wow. Doesn't he know that dog fights are to the death and very unregulated?? While mma is completely regulated. Dumbest thing I've ever heard about mma.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:48
all i have to say is wow. good job CP, but arguing with people who ignore the facts (or are just plain unreasonable) is not an easy thing to do.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:49
It's scary to think there are ignorant assholes like him in public office.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:54
if you read between the lines it sounds like this guy only cares about money. he is playing hard ball until the UFC agrees to give New York a large part of PPV revenues along with a big part of the live gate. this is why his other arguments dont hold water, because he knows they are contrived and only being posited until he gets the money he wants and then all of these arguments will magically disappear.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:54
Bob Reilly is a moron! I wish I lived in NY so I could not vote for him! 1/2 million is more than they are getting now. And it has nothing to do with Vegas or gambling. IDIOT!
Fri, 03/13/09 - 02:57
I still don't see why he doesn't want "$500,000" in the local economy. Yes UFC gets 3.5 million but they are puttin on the damn show! You are in a sence getting money for nothing. And there maybe be poverty around casinos, but MMA events come and go, they are not a fixed thing like a casino. So bringing in a UFC event would turn everything around the arena in poverty? Fo what a day? Week? however long they are there? Forever? Rediculous argument. This guy needs to get a life!
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:01
someone needs to ask assemblyman reilly about the bar he owned in albany that would serve liquor to minors and was where some young chick got raped.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:06
This guy is a douche bag. He just wants a bigger cut of the action! Government is not established to make money off business. They should not approve/deny a sport based on the money it generates. Money has NOTHING to do with the legality of a sport! If boxing is legal to promote in a state, they have no leg to stand on. If two fighters are allowed to compete, it's just an issue of what rules they agree to follow. Now, if he conducts a VALID poll and finds people do not want MMA that's fine. Boxing needs to be illegal as well. But when they call and ask: "would you be opposed to NY allowing illegal combat sports to host events..." it changes the perception. I can't stand some geriatric suit trying to impose his idea of how I should live, what I can spend my money on, or what I can do for entertainment. If my appearance, lifestyle, rhetoric, etc offends you GOOD! people have developed the notion that they have a right to be offended and make everybody stop doing everything. You have a right to get over yourself and worry about your own life. His family is probably full of drunks, crackheads, whores, and thieves. Why not get involved in their lives and leave ours alone. What a tool.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:09
wow, well said. FREE NEW YORK!!
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:09
What he doesn't understand is that most of that 4 million dollars will not be from Albany's residents and economy. Most of the live gate would be raised by people from out of the area. There would be people from all over NY and the NE, plus all the people that always come from Vegas. I'm sure a fair amount of Canadians would come down, especially if a certain Canadian headlined the card. All these people would need to stay in hotels and buy food at restaurants. The town would lose probably like 250,000 dollars from ticket sales, but due to tourism, taxes, and possible ppv revenues they would make a considerable profit.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:13
I don't know if I completely disagree with Reilly about how it doesn't help New York's economy if $3.5 mil comes out of New Yorker's pockets and into another state. Then again what people decide to do with their money is there business.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:18
He's a typical hater. He doesn't want "casino" owners it get richer. I understand the argument that Vegas has either slums or palaces. But Vegas would not exsist at all without those Gaming Establishments. Also I would like to point out some retard math: Bob Reilly, and Bob Reilly alone, pointed out that 3% of the live gate was in no way shape or form good enough for the fine state of New York. He championed the people when he pointed this out to the sponsor of the legislation and they changed it. However, $500,000 out of a theoretical $4,000,000 is also no way good enough for Bob Reilly. This is outrageous acording to Bob Reilly. Get a cell phone with a calculator Bob...that would have worked out to 12.5%. I think that Bobo needs to also understand that a regular stream of live events at these venues make it possible for arenas to stay open and employ people all year round. Is Marilyn Manson denied a venue in Albany or Buffalo because that sick fuck only does one show? I don't think so. Also I love how Bobo says, "based on their studies, they use Buffalo, but I use Albany since they’re similar cities." God forbid you compare apples to apples.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:20
That is one skilled politician right there. His constant dodges and evasions are really a thing of dirty-political beauty. I'm with the guy above though. This Douche is merely holding out for a bigger slice of the pie (see his constant references to Money and Billionaire Casino Owners). As soon as he gets it, the fight will be over and he'll move on to extorting cash from the next set of deep pockets that asks him for something. He clearly knows the UFC wants desperately to break into New York, and he's just trying to see just how badly they want it. This must have been a ridiculously frustrating interview for Mr. Fowlkes.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:27
Great interview! This guy is an F'n idiot. Is there audio of this, I'd love to hear it?
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:30
Seriously guys, cut me some slack, I was constipated when Ben interviewed me. Totally unfair. I'm a tool, with no clue. and I give no fucks.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:32
His economic argument is hot garbage. With the UFC coming to town: The arena owners get paid, the tax man gets paid, the peanut/beer vendors get paid, the cops workings security detail get paid, the hotels get paid, the restaurants get paid, the street vendors get paid, the airlines get paid, the local shopping district gets paid, the local hospital gets paid for treating fighters, etc. That's one hell of a lot more than a half million in taxes to the local economy, and it beats the crap out of the big fat NOTHING they stand to get if the UFC does not come to town.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:32
oh wait... I'm Bob. Often confused with my douche of a relative Bill. Brainlessness is a family affair.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:32
Stop Writing essays. figure out your thoughts, and write 1 or two sentences... for example. Assemblyman makes a great economic point, But the UFC is a business, and "they" are a government entity. Sure hes talking about "money" all the time, but the bottom line is this.... Mixed Martial Arts is a Business practiced in and all over the world. Even in NEW YORK. but when money gets involved licensing is required... to get licensing, you need supporters.. and thats where the assemblyman is involved. hes not doing it because its wrong or right, hes doing it because they want a piece of the pie. My guess? 4-8 months UFC's PR team gives them their 20% or whatever they want. since they wont just come out and say it. lol
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:34
Reilly's a professional question-dodger. He likes to answer something very different from what Ben asked him, but I find many of our politicians do that. Bush was the king of that. The double-talk is subtle: "First of all, I have looked at all the studies that show violence begetting violence. And it’s clear that whether it’s in the media or in a live sporting event, violence does beget violence." Ok, but what about the studies that might say something different? He clearly says he didn't look at those. I will admit that I don't hate him as much now. At least I understand where he's coming from, even if I don't agree. Thanks, Ben.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:39
there were definately better questions that could have come out of it. great job, but you have to corner evasive people. boxing is heavly regulated, so is MMA. instead of asking if the "dog fight comparison" was harsh. act as if you do not understand and get them to ellaborate. the only one that can make politicians look like what they are, is to make them go into specifics. if they dont ellaborate, they sound offensive/defensive depending how you swing it. the whole money issue is something we all understand. you really have to compare the pie to something that they are already eatting. boxing..kick that horse til it comes back to life. point out king and how he wants a piece of MMA. they cant be slanderous so they have to see him as "the best boxing promoter of all time". ben, you cant make it any worse than what we have now. its an issue of money. be slick willy, rip beards and gouge eyes.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:43
This man has no idea how economics works at all. A true dumbass, just go back to agiculture.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:46
This man is good at one thing, and that is political speak. The war may be fought between him and his supporters and us, but it isnt won there. It is won with the voters. In a matter that a person is not passionate about, they skim the articles they read on the subject and listen to key words and phrases of the arguments. So when he says stuff like "dog fighting" and "take 3 1/2 million bucks", he is strategically placing phrases so the average voter will link those phrases to this issue. Mr. Reilly, your a scumbag dirtfuck of a politician and you know it you sleazy greedy piece of shit. Your waiting for the "billionaires" to make it worth your while, because your not just gonna let these "Las Vegas Guys" come into your state without paying. Your a corrupt motherfucker working in one of the corrupt states in this country. Your not going to stop MMA, and frankly, I think if the price is right you could care less.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:48
He's not even good at political speak.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 03:52
Sooooo, boil it down and he wants more of the cut. The only arguements he makes in his defense are full of red herrings and ad hoc bullshit. Man, what a ----stick.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:00
They should stop allowing movies in New York because all the money just goes to Hollywood.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:01
This guy doesn't care that if a boxing match occurs in madison square garden and both fighters and the company hosting the fights are all from mexico, meaning all the profit goes to Mexico that's ok but not if it's going to vegas?
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:10
But it's perfectly ok for New Yorker's to spend their money on boxing events at MSG...does that hurt New York's economy? How much do HBO/Showtime take back with them after a fight?
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:12
Wait a minute - was this Tim Geithner you were interviewing? This guy's understanding of economics makes me think he should write the next stimulus bill. So they city will get a half-million in *tax* revenue, and the UFC will make $3.5 million on the gate which they will take back to Vegas? Okay. So let's say all $3.5 million is from local Albaniers (or Albanians?), and the UFC pockets all of that and heads back to Vegas to deposit it in the Fertittas' casino vault where these billionaires swim in their riches like Scrooge McDuck. Even in this far-fetched scenario, it pretends the only money generated is from tickets, and the half-million in tax revenue just appears in the cities coffers. What about the millions of dollars spent in the local economy to produce those tax dollars? Even if it was all local money spent, at least it created economic activity. It created something for nothing. Entrepreneurship and ingenuity create economic activity and grow an economy. It is NOT a zero-sum game. The real scenario, however, is that for the UFC to generate $3.5 million in ticket sales, and for the state and local governments to get a half-million in tax revenue (per event) it would take probably somewhere upwards of $10 million in economic activity, mainly brought in from outside of the immediate local area. I'm sure this guy is well-intentioned, but it would be nice if well-intentioned politicians would stop forcing their personal likes and dislikes on the rest of us.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:17
This guy is a career politician, and is the prime reason why both the U.S and Canada ( we have jerk-offs like this as well, sadly ) are in such trouble these days. When a Politician cannot grasp the concept of a simple sport like MMA then he is bound to make half-tard comments regarding its legalization, vote this turd toucher out New Yorkers, can you imagine what he screws up that is actually IMPORTANT?? scary stuff...........
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:45
@Imbecile: Thank you for mentioning that this is not a zero-sum game. That is the problem with politicians. None of them have apperently heard the phrase "It takes money to make money" This 4 million is not static. The more that gets spent the more people make, the more they make the more they spend, the more someone else makes, the more they spend. The ball has to start somewhere. Thank you all for realizing that lots of people stand to benefit, from hospitals, to resturants, to hotels, to police and fire. EVERYONE. From all levels. When the money starts to flow, everyone can can wade in the stream.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:48
what is funny is that I am sure I could list a hundred other companies, and big ones at that, that dont have central locations in NY....Try the automotive industry for example. He allows them to sell there product in NY. UFC is selling a product - MMA. The is only one reason behind everything - MORE MONEY. Its why the UFC wants in NY, its why this DB is blocking it.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 04:57
Mandy Moore likes MMA do you want to make Mandy Moore cry? D-bag: well i had some wine legislation to save liquor stores bla bla bla people tell me alll the time blah blah blah i'm a dick head
Fri, 03/13/09 - 05:05
I bet if the ufc said will give you 2 million of the four million and we get to keep all of our tv buys he would take the two million!
Fri, 03/13/09 - 05:58
Someone buy this guy a coffin and a burial plot. He spends all of his time rambling on and on with completely unrelated analogies. My grandfather does it too...it's called Alzheimer's. The end is coming soon Bobby.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 06:27
This is a perfect example of our gov't hard at work.They are keeping MMA out of NY because they aren't getting a big enough piece of the pie.Not only do they want 10% of the live gate,they want a cut of the PPV too.It has NOTHING to do with violence or fighter saftey or kids fighting in school yards or any of that.It's how much money they can make the UFC cough up.According to this guy,the state should be making the lion's share of the money,even though the UFC is doing all the work.He's offended that the UFC might actually make a profit in his state. Everyone needs to start waking up.The gov't taxes EVERYTHING you do with your money.They tell you what you can and cannot do.They make up ridiculous laws and use them to force the public to conform or pay up,or preferibly both. It's time folks start saying "enough" and put their foot down. WB.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 07:07
I can't believe this tight ass white boy with his rationalized illogical logic. Way to press him with good questions Ben, good interview. TAMF
Fri, 03/13/09 - 08:28
Oh that's just absurd! Can he name the last competition to sell out said 19,000 seats in Albany that was'nt sending the lion's share to the promotion, the athletes and the casino's? Hell, Affliction's got to come out of pocket just to pay the meter maid. Change your name sir! No longer shall you be called Bob Reilly. I dub the; Bob,... Really? You serious?
Fri, 03/13/09 - 08:40
500,000 dollars in one evening , some businesses dont pay that in a whole year of operations in tax. He says 500 k like its a bad thing, its for one evening, sheesus, idiot.What about the surrounding hotels , the restaurants , etc , those are just a few businesses that profit for a couple days when the event is in town.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 08:50
I actually am starting to agree with Reilly. You guys don't seem to understand that the New York government is indeed making 500k, but the city of New York as a whole is losing 3.5 million to Las Vegas. As a whole, New York loses money in this situation. This is like when American car manufacturers choose to produce their cars in Mexico; if you buy "American", sure the CEOs and such at the top of the food chain make bank but the little people make nothing. In this situation, Las Vegas makes a ton of money but New York actually loses 3.5 million net dollars to Vegas. Thus, 3.5 million at a time, New York loses money. I'm sure Reilly wouldn't have a problem with this issue if Zuffa and company were based in NYC, but they're not. MMA could be the safest sport in the world, and fiscally this would not be a responsible move for a New York City that is in a deficit. In organizations like the NFL, New York might not get anything from the away games but they make a ton off of the home games, and even the away games probably due to television rights sales. If New York is in as big of an economic poop hole as everyone seems to be saying, Reilly is making a smart move on behalf of New York and I agree with him. The car manufacturers shouldn't just accept their meager wages and call it a day; they should ask for a slice of the profits. I'm sorry, but New York City is a hell of a lot bigger than Zuffa and the UFC, and Zuffa is trying to get away with making MASSIVE profits off of New York's image while paying crumbs for it (and in a sense actually stealing 3.5 million out of the economy). Zuffa is continuing to make tons of money while at the same time ripping off its employees, and Bens even you agree with this shown by your always included "Underpaid" section in post-fight analysis. Zuffa should be contributing to the New York economy, not robbing it blind while at the same time using its image. The issue at hand here is not "safety", and I bet even Reilly knows that (well maybe not...). But, as I said, even if safety were not a concern if I were a New York lawmaker I would not pass this bill, because all its doing is authorizing the funneling of New York dollars to Vegas. To anyone that hasn't studied economics, I'd advise you to shut the hell up and realize that the man, though an out of touch geezer, does seem to have his constituents at heart. Zuffa is the bad guy here, not Bob Reilly. And this is coming from a fan.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 10:18
@ Aenarion- What sham of a school did you study economics at? The 4MM gate comes from across the country, not just the city or state the fight takes place in. Thousands of unique secondary transactions take place (transportation, food, lodging, liquor, tax, etc.) in the local economy that would not have otherwise existed and add to the total economic benefit. Next time you're going to write a tome about something, know what the fuck you're talking about. You've obviously done no dd on this topic.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 10:35
@aenarion- Another aspect to look at is the whole "Adults should be able to spend their money where they choose." Making the whole Vegas argument means new york residents should not be able to travel to other states to spend their money, or buy over the internet from another state. See where he is going with this. Is he going to outlaw travel to vegas by new york residents. The bottom line is that any tax paying age of majority adult should be outraged that their right to spend their money how they want would be controlled based on protectionism. It is not how your country was founded and what made it the greatest country in the history of mankind. That was the idea behind your founding fathers and their quest for independence. Cherish it and protect it and don't let a control freak take it from you in the name of "protecting" you.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 11:33
@Whiteghost Oh wow, you've convinced me of the error of my ways. Not. Unlike Las Vegas, New York does not live and die by tourism. It has a community of people that actually live there, and generally speaking they are rich as hell and indulge in luxury goods. Where is Madison Square Garden?... in Manhattan, which just happens to be the personal per capita richest county in the whole fucking country. What else is in New York, particularly Manhattan? More corporate headquarters than any other county in the country! So when some of the world's most powerful businesses are already flying in partners and prospects and looking to entertain them, they will buy them UFC tickets with New York dollars. Those are gonna be going right back to Vegas, and not staying in New York. Once the novelty of Madison Square Garden wears off, most of the live gate is going to be made up of New Yorkers, and there won't be all those secondary transactions you speak of. Dumbshit.
Fri, 03/13/09 - 11:50
Great cut at it Ben, but you missed the biggest angle in this whole thing... the labor union lobby. MMApayout had an excellent article on this angle a few weeks back. Essentially there is a labor union lobby who is trying to push Station Casinos to have their employees form a union. The PR firm that conducted Rielly's "67% against" poll is the PR firm on retainer for this huge labor union lobby. Two points to refute the Rielly: 1.) The $4 million in live gate isn't the only money genearted for a city hosting a UFC event. That would be like saying the Super Bowl only brings in the cost of tickets x number of seats. The impact on the local economy is really from the hotel rooms being filled, the restuarants have heavier traffic the weekend of an event, etc. This is basic sport event economics. He continually goes back the $4 million of which only $500k stays here. He is focused on a single aspect of the economic impact. Local businesses will see a boost in sales. 2.) He plays the same old politician card of "they have all this money, all these resources, I'm just a public servant fighting the good fight" bs. Sure he didn't personally pay for the PR firm to conduct the study he mentions refers to, however a lobbiest who wants something from him did. Politicians have indirect resources, not piles of cash they personally spend. Politics are a game, once we understand how its played its easy to see why Rielly is campaigning against this issue. He may find it personally offensive, but that isn't the crux of the matter, its a union issue as it so often is in politics.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 12:27
@aenarion So the argument stands to reason that any form of entertainment that does not originate in New York should be banned, because that is the economic basis of Bob's argument. I believe golden Boy promotions is based in California. Does that mean any boxing event put on by Oscar is not allowed as all those dollars go straight back to California. I believe Bob just needs to man up and admit what this is about-Control and his desire to tell us what is good for us and what he feels we should do. It's all about control for him because if it wasn't he wouldn't use knee-jerk reactionary protectionist rants and hypoctritical statements about violence and sport and then admitting to liking boxing, saying it's different from MMA but b eing unable to say why with any degree of knowledge ro authority on the subject.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 01:36
Is that the idiot from Fox?
Sat, 03/14/09 - 05:26
"The is only one reason behind everything - MORE MONEY." Nah. The only reason that Reilly is opposed to MMA is because his union masters at UNITE HERE told him to. UNITE HERE still has sand in their vagina over the Fertitta's squashing their efforts to make Station Casino's a union shop. They lacked the political clout to hurt the Fertitta's in Nevada, but in New York they have politicians like Reilly in their pocket and can make life miserable for the brothers. This isn't about the brutality of the sport, the decline of western civilization, or the economic realities of interstate commerce. It is about organized labor wanting to extract their pound of flesh from one of their enemies.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 06:14
Not quite Jim Cramer vs. John Stewart but still pretty good. (Stewart def. Cramer R1 via brutal verbal ass raping)
Sat, 03/14/09 - 07:02
Notice how Reilly was trying to argue against MMA in NY claiming most people don't want (referencing bogus polls) and how he thought it was too brutal, etc. Then at the end he basically says that if the state could get a bigger chunk of the money that would be made by the promotion for an MMA event then he'd be OK with it? So basically he's saying, to hell with my "moral" stance on this, if we can get more money let's do it. What a sellout for his own cause (if he even actually believes that and isn't trying to use it as a bargaining chip).
Sat, 03/14/09 - 07:11
I don't agree with the guy or anything, but the UFC is bent as hell and controversial doesn't even cover their business strategies and complete lack of ethics.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 08:05
@Steve4192 and wait why would UNITE HERE want to force the fertitas to a union shop...MORE MONEY. Unions exist to make money.../slap. @aenarion The top five largest retailers by sales revenue in 2008 Target - HQ in Minnesota WalMart - HQ in Arkansas Home Depot - HQ in Georgia Kroger - HQ in Ohio CostCo - HQ in Washington Do any of these operate in NY because then all the money would be leaving NY too... WAKE UP, please.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 08:57
This guy bobs and weaves around the questions like... i don't know... Tank abbott
Sat, 03/14/09 - 09:06
wow...his opinions or assumptions sounds like they can be personal/ or very political...cause he doesnt like it, everyone from NY is screwed...whut a fuckin hypocrite....cant believe we have idiots in office who bullshit on paper like this guy
Sat, 03/14/09 - 09:46
What I can't understand is why Bob Reilly wants to stop there? If the UFC would be "taking" all of their money back to Vegas, why not stop others from doing the same? Why would he let those greedy fat cats from New York City come into poor Albany and start a business if they might send some of the money back to their rich banks in Manhattan? Albany should be for Albany, and that is it!!! Kick out all the Starbucks, and McDonalds, and the airlines, and car companies, and anyone not exclusively creating, manufacturing, selling, and keeping their money within the confines of the Albany city limits. Fuck these interlopers! In fact, there should be no coffee, or hamburgers, or cars in Albany at all, since the coffee was grown in Columbia, and the beef was raised in Iowa, and the cars were made in Japan. People in Albany don't need choices, they need economic containment of their money so not a single dollar leaves the city. Come on Bob, grow a pair and start protecting the little guy. He doesn't want better prices, more job opportunities, more consumer choices, and a better quality of life. What he needs is you telling him what he should like, and what he should live with, and he needs you are protecting him from all of these people who want to take his money elsewhere. You know better how to live people's lives, Bob. You know you do. So why not try and show these poor sheep that they desperately need a shepherd like you to run their lives.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 10:01
No, just a guy who speaks out when someone in power abuses it.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 11:03
As an on and off violent alcoholic, I resent the fact that he is willing to go to bat for liqour stores but use the violence begets violence argument about mma when we all know that alcohol begets violence, serious violence. In mma two men agree to fight eachother in a controlled, sanctioned environment, whereas my family has never agreed to any of the fights my drinking has caused, there were no refs no rounds and no economic upside. In short, Bobby ought to consider some of the violence his previous legislation has begat.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 11:42
aenarion you are a complete fucking moron you need to shut the fuck up, new york does not only make 500k and lose 3.5million. they make money off hotels, food, tourism that is coming to watch the ufc in new york, they are not coming to see new york so you see in fact new york is benefitting off of the ufc's image not the other way around. you must suck reilly's dick for a living or something cause your a complete fucking moron and make no sense just like reilly.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 01:40
Clearly anonymous missed my second post.
Sat, 03/14/09 - 06:42
Honestly, this guy needs to go to his local community college and try some econ 101. Because if there is one thing we know, it's that foreign investment hurts an economy, and that protectionism is the key to prosperity. I mean, I planned on making a few points about how horrendously wrong, conflicting, or illogical some of his statements are, but there is no way I have the time. The fact that he truly believes what he says is astounding. Almost every sentence drips with a completele ignorance of economics, society, or even logic. New York, what the fuck is wrong with you people? How is this man in office?
Sun, 03/15/09 - 06:45
Ok, so if it is bad for our economy to hold a UFC event in Albany because 75% of the money from the live gate is taken out of state, using that same rationalization wouldn't it also then be bad to hold any concerts, where after the show all the money from that live gate leaves thes state as well? Does he have a problem with concerts coming to town?
Sun, 03/15/09 - 09:55
This comment is exactly why we need young people to get involved in their communities and politics in general. Young people need to run for office. Take the power back from these dinosaurs who are immune to anything new. Their tired arguments and tired old thinking make me sick. Young people unite and take the power back!
Mon, 03/16/09 - 09:38
@ erik macfarlane I couldn't agree less with this moron, Bob Reilly, but the last thing we need is more young people getting involved. They are too stupid to even understand when they are being sold down the river by the older generations right now, and they are the ones who voted for this. The young people were the ones who were all caught up in the great fun of hope and change, and change an hope. These bright eyed youngsters decided they would get off their beer-soaked couches on election day, take a few aspirin to clear up the hangover, and go punch the ticket for Obama and friends. Then they would happily go back to their lives that are completely paid for by their parents and the world would be filled with hope and change. Well... these idiots got what they deserved. All these trillions everyone keeps hearing about don't really exist. They are simply leveraged debtto be paid by these same children that helped push these people into office. The government is now spending with the same way as the people with all this piling credit card debt, and the youth are who will pay for it down the road. They should take a good look at their parents' and grandparents' lives, and realize they will never be able to retire that way because of this debt. And the youth is too stupid to understand this, so they should be the last people we elect into office. Maybe they would legalize MMA, but that isn't an issue that anyone should be basing their entire vote on.
Mon, 03/16/09 - 07:03
I have a question. Where is the guy at that bashes fighters all day? Wheres the guy that trashes the Tapout guys, the Affliction wearers, Tito Ortiz and pretty much every guy that has gotten cut from the UFC since you started this website? You dont have a problem slamming guys that have the guts to get in the cage/ring, or the guy that painted his face and created a persona, helping fighters pay bills and feed their families while they train. Where the fuck was that guy when it was time to confront Bob Reilly?!! You turned into exactly what you are, a big mouthed little pussy who talks shit about fighters and important figures in our sport, but would stammer and cower if anyone called you on your bullshit. The guys that had all sorts of smart assed comments for Bob Reilly, when you werent actually talking to Bob Reilly. Bens, YOU are whats wrong with our sport. YOU are the keyboard warriors who piss the intelligent fight fans off. YOU are the reasons alot of fighters dont go on the internet, because they try to avoid the negativity that is dished at them for any personality flaw or past losses. Lets look at you for what you are. Your mouthy, disrespectful, ignorant, spineless bloggers. By the way, you dont get a free pass for all the shit you said about Charles, and when the next tragedy in MMA happens, and you give the same transparent half apology, I hope it clicks in your head that your damaging the fighters and the sport as a whole.
Sun, 04/19/09 - 06:23
The argument actually makes a lot of sense from an economic perspective. What the angry commentators arent realizing is... the UFC isnt putting 500,000 into the local economy, its taking 3,500,000 out of it. The 4m from the gate are being paid by local residents who would of spent that money on other items (potentially supplied by local stores/vendors).
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