(Little known fact about Roach? He absolutely loves Hitler jokes. Poor guy can’t help himself.)
Renowned boxing trainer Freddie Roach may not understand what this MMA jazz is all about, nor does he have much of an appreciation for the ground game (with the possible exception of Fedor Emelianenko’s armbars, I think they’re called), but he sees what’s going on with the UFC’s James Toney signing, and he doesn’t care for it. As he told Crave Online recently:
“I think they’re using James as a way to say MMA fighters are better than boxers. If he fights a quality ground guy, once he goes to the ground he’s gonna get killed. But If a guy chooses to stand up with James, James is gonna destroy him. That’s why they call him “Lights Out”. I really don’t think there’s one fighter in MMA that could stand with James.”
And thus, Roach exposes the great dark secret about the UFC’s latest maneuver. Signing Toney is just a ruse to make all boxers look inferior to MMA fighters. It is, at the very least, an interesting theory. It’s not without its problems, however.
For one, Toney relentlessly pursued the UFC – not the other way around. He showed up at press conferences, made several incoherent YouTube videos, and generally refused to go away. If Toney is getting used here, it’s something he practically begged for.
Second, if Toney gets murdered in his first UFC fight, all it will prove is that this particular boxer wasn’t ready for this particular MMA bout. We’re not kidding ourselves here. We know that Toney is a 41 year-old has-been in the boxing world. Beating him in a boxing match wouldn’t even prove that much anymore. Beating him outside his own sport is just something we expect of any decent MMA fighter who plays it smart.
If the guy chooses to stand and bang? Yeah, maybe then it’s lights out. Then again, maybe we find out how Toney likes being kicked upside his head.
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commentsI truly believe that because of the money in boxing the top striking talent is there. Keep in mind most MMA fighters still have full time jobs... how can somebody be the best fighter in the world when they train after work? More money = more competition= better talent. Again like everyone else has said striking is just one element but EVERY MMA fighter has a backbone, wrestlers learn to punch etc.
And no... I don't think Toney will be very successful and I don't think it proves a thing.
Freddie Roach, regardless of what anyone thinks of his opinion is a successful and legendary coach.
Toney going to the UFC has more to do with keeping him away from Strikeforce than anything else i think, after all the attention Walker generated for them.
The argument of whether or not a boxer would beat a mixed martial artist is a classic and the very basis of the UFC and other similar contests for a very long time past, whatever is said on either side will only serve to generate more hype.
Also, people should remember that all decent boxers are familiar with what in boxing is considered 'dirty', i.e use of the elbows and other parts of the hand and forearm and I'm sure Toney has had his share of streetfights, so he won't be a total novice to what goes on in a cage on the inside.
As a further point on the subject of boxing's effectiveness, less is sometimes more, when the brain is under pressure, more options can slow down the speed of reaction. It takes years of training and repetition to commit a technique to muscle memory and make it instantly available in the heat of the moment.
Finally, pre-Marquess of Queensbury rules, Boxing was very similar to MMA, with elbows, throws, takedowns, pins, stomps and holding and hitting all being allowed, which makes this whole debate fairly ironic.
He seriously has not trained a winner in forever.
Anyone who tries to stand and bang with Toney will lose (i.e. tries to outbox the fucking boxer)
Anyone who manages to grapple with Toney will win.
A boxer will beat an MMA fighter in a boxing match every time.
An MMA fighter will beat a boxer in an MMA fight every time.
It doesn't matter what organization is promoting, how big the gloves are, or anything fucking else.
If you only utilize one dimension (i.e. boxing, wrestling; etc) then the guy who only trains in that dimesnsion has the advantage. If not, then the guy who excels at the most things has the advantage.
/debate
I dont follow boxing. But from what I know, +1.
And I don't see what Roach is talking about. Not only did James Toney pursue the UFC, but he also claimed that he would smash everyone because he is an original death fighter with a killer side check kick. CP is right, his winning or losing will prove nothing. People have already won fights using boxing skills, and people have already lost fights trying to use only boxing.
Someone get the enswell and the Avitene...
Cloiselle - your statement makes sense if the person reading it knows nothing about MMA. If you think it was the boxing element that allows those fighters to dominate, let's go to Rich Franklin's nose and ribcage and ask them how good they felt after all those knees that Silva nailed him with while maintaining a beautiful Thai clinch.
To equate Couture with great boxing is, well, is to be an idiot. Research the guy a little bit, then get back to me.
Same for Frank Mir. The guy has eveolved his game by incorporating boxing into it as another aspect, but let's ask Brock Lesnar about Mir's boxing credentials on the night Mir submitted him. Or the time he broke Tim Syliva's arm with a submission. Again, do a little research, then you can join in the discussion.
Like talking to the elderly.
There's nothing to be gained by attempting to reason, arguing or disturbing their world view.
They're just set in their ways.
(And we'll all be there one day)
Toney is past his prime and not properly prepared. It has NOTHING to do with boxing vs. MMA as a win or loss will prove nothing. As far as standing with Cro cop etc... my money would still be on a washed up Toney. On paper the fighter that can use more weapons is better, but in reality there is and has been more money in pure boxing than kick or thai, and as a result more talent over the years. Toney would do better at a lower weight like in his past... quicker on his feet increasing his chance to avoid a takedown, he fights too flat footed now and it will be exposed.
I hope he fights Kimbo first, decent stand up fight, give him half a chance, then put him in there with Cro Cop let him eat some headkicks. eventually once he wakes up in a month or so, toss him to Randy and get him the fook out of MMA for good!
Mumbles'z boxing is on a whole 'nother level then theirs but his lack of well roundedness(not really a word)will be his undoing. I know I'm being Mr. Obvious here, but it is what it is. The onus really falls on his opponent, in my opinion. Play with fire and stand with Fat Fuck or play it safe and risk getting called a "(Mumbling)Maf'kn biiiatch, nawmsayin. He a got on top a me like a fag do, put me in a wrasslin move like on them WWWFE."
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