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Get a Little Perspective on This Murder in the Octagon Stuff


(Brock Lesnar might be worth killing, but Kongo? He’s barely worth an assault charge. Photo courtesy of Fight Magazine.)

In the wake of Frank Mir’s apology for saying that he’d like to kill Brock Lesnar in the Octagon, many people have paused to take a step back and recall that Mir isn’t the first person to invoke death when speaking about a former opponent. For instance, there’s B.J. Penn, who told Sean Sherk he was dead and later assured Georges St. Pierre that they’d be fighting to the death. There’s also Lesnar himself who, as Zak Woods points out, actually said he wanted to “murder” Mir at UFC 100. And yet no apology followed. No public outcry. So what’s the difference?

Some would say it’s the specificity of Mir’s remark. Not only did he detail exactly how he wanted Lesnar to die (something about a broken neck), he also said he wanted Lesnar to be the first person to die from “Octagon-related injuries.” You could argue that it was Mir’s attention to detail that got him in trouble, but then again, Lesnar said murder. As in, the type of killing that is always a crime. That’s why there’s a word to differentiate it from kiliing in self-defense, or an accident, or war, or an execution. Everyone from the Romans to the Victorians to the dudes poking one another’s eyes out in the Code of Hammurabi generally agreed that murder is bad and should be avoided.

So why no outrage or forced apology?


The answer is that we don’t believe Lesnar meant it literally, whereas Mir went just a little too far in explaining himself. I sympathize, because it’s a fuzzy line. We’ve all, at some point in our lives, perhaps a point earlier this morning, told someone that we would kill them. Most of us didn’t mean that we would actually take the person’s life, and we assumed that they knew this without us needing to clarify it.

But here’s the thing: the more specific your death threat becomes, the more likely you are to get in trouble over it (unless it involves the President, in which case you will always get in trouble).

For instance, if you beat me at Trivial Pursuit thanks to a ridiculously easy last question after I had to try and answer some crap about who won Best Actress in 1938, and I respond by saying, ‘I’m going to freaking kill you,’ chances are you won’t pick up the phone and call the cops. If, on the other hand, I say, ‘I’m going to kill you tonight, while you’re sleeping, by bashing your head in with a hammer, and then I’m going to staple that Trivial Pursuit card to the soup that used to be your face,’ at the very least I will have ruined what was a pleasant evening among friends, and I may be looking at a restraining order.

Understand the difference now? Mir isn’t a bad person for saying he wants to kill Lesnar, but he did go just a tad too far with the specifics. He probably did it to make a point, and in a way he made that point, but that doesn’t mean it was a good idea.  Fortunately, Lesnar doesn’t have the internet so may know nothing about this.  If he finds out though, man, he’s going to freaking kill this guy.

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Harry Nips- February 25, 2010 at 9:17 am
Well said Affo- I can't stand Mir, but his ability to hype himself up is unmatched. He got completely dominated and ass raped @ UFC 100, turned around and beat up Kongo (btw isn't even close to sniffing the top 10) and now b/c of his mouth he is right back in contention. It also seems to me that Mir's sights are only set on Lesnar, he might want to concentrate on that Carwin guy he's fighting in a month. Maybe Jon Fitch should take a lesson or 2 from Mir's ability to hype fights and he might finally get his rematch w/ GSP.
AFOMMADOTCOM- February 25, 2010 at 6:03 am
I actually think this was a smart move on Mir's part from a personal career standpoint, obviously its a horrible thing to say in such detail, but he has essentially figured out a way to eliminate any would-be hype of Lesnar vs. Valasquez following Cains destruction of Nog and re-direct it into hype for Lesnar vs. Mir 3. Well played sir
Randy Pan- February 25, 2010 at 1:26 am
I re-watched the UFC 100 bout between Mir and Lesnar. Mir got dominated, humiliated, and brutalized by Lesnar in the main event of one of the most highly advertised UFC cards ever. Dude lost his mind.
Sneaky Pete- February 24, 2010 at 10:22 pm
I just want to know exactly which part of Mir got stuck in Lesnar's colon? His career, is pride, that "horse shoe he had up his ass?" Doesn't Lesnar know that "Mir is Murder"?
Carl Sagan- February 24, 2010 at 8:36 pm
LOL @ Code of Hammurabi reference. This article brought mad lulz
Sjsurf- February 24, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Techno Viking vs. Lesnar!
tnbp- February 24, 2010 at 6:58 pm
@Dazed

I guess we're arguing semantics. You're talking about specific MUSCLE mass. So maybe he hasn't added 20 pounds of strictly muscle. He has undoubtedly put on fat, as well, in the perhaps 40 pounds he's put on between those two fights.

The 245 he weighed against Kongo was the most ripped he had looked but was definitely not the "biggest" he'd ever looked. He weighed 251 when he fought Nogueria at UFC 92 and he weighed 255 when he fought Lesnar the first time. Also, I'm near-positive that Mir cut to get down to 265 for the Kongo fight. I thought I remembered him talking about the cutting process in the preview show leading up to the event.

But I actually do work out and know a thing or two about putting on muscle. I know that in the time between his fight with Lesnar in July of 09 and his fight with Kongo in December of 09, working with one of the world's premiere powerlifting coaches, training professionally however many hours a day, it's more than possible to put on 20 pounds of mass in that 5-month span.

Again, it's all semantics, here. The overall point is this: If Lesnar walks into the cage at 285 on fight night and Mir walks into the same cage at 285 on fight night and their body fat percentages are anywhere near each other, then from a muscular, physical standpoint they are about equal (discarding, of course, the actual fiber of the muscles because you can't study who has more fast-twitch mass without doing an autopsy-- and that type of physiological can make for a vast difference in the performance of muscle make-up.)
DazedNConfused- February 24, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Very true, all depends where the muscle is at as well. I remember Mir even talking about this before his fight with Lesner. He states he is much more scared of a fighter with huge legs and shoulders, over fighters with big arms and other muscles that aren't as needed for a successful MMA fighter.

I agree Mir has the ability by the summer (If he beats Carwin) to be much bigger than his last Lesner bout. How much of that actual Muscle, and how much just fattyness is questionable. But with that much weight, fat is a great thing to have when trying to shift your weight and get someone like BrockTheCock off you. I agree we were most likely argueing semantics, but that's what sites like this are all about haha.

I just always see Mir as having quite a bit of fat on him. Like 17-18% Body fat or so. He just has that body type. If him and Brock both weigh 285 coming into the fight I see Brock as the stronger, more muscular fighter. But that's just me.
alau112- February 24, 2010 at 5:14 pm
I think Mir legitimately wants to kill Lesnar. Brock knocked some screws loose w/ his lunch box fists.
denver_rolling- February 24, 2010 at 4:39 pm
who. the. fuck. cares. gotta love Dana and everyone's faux outrage
Opposites Attack- February 24, 2010 at 4:20 pm
If the ADMINS approve my last post, you will all see the 20 lbs of MUSCLE that MIR put on, and how that is laughable at best....just type 'Frank Mir' into a google image search and look at the picture of his hand being raised at the end of the KONGO fight where u say he added 20 effing lbs of pure muscle. that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life.
tommyhammersticks- February 24, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Dazed,

You're not accounting for water weight. 70% of muscle is water. Steroids helps retain water and makes you look puffy like Brock Lesnar. It's not that easy to pack on fat. It is easy to keep hydrated as you're gaining fat and muscle.

What's my point? My point is that I am willing to go a long way to give Brock Lesnar a backhanded insult.

Maybe Brown Turd and Cock Chestnar will rip each others heads off in a battle of the bad chest tattoos. Tortillas and beff jerky at every concession stand. Good for your colon infections.
DazedNConfused- February 24, 2010 at 3:52 pm
@TnBp

No offense man, but that isnt all muscle. Mir is large, but he has gained fat as well. Im assuming you don't work out or anything (No offense) because it's pretty damn hard gaining a straight up 20 pounds of muscle. That would take years.

Mir weighed 245 without cutting weight vs brock. Looking bigger than before. Now he weighs 265, doubt he cut weight, with most likely 5 more pounds of muscle. As ive been told by workout hogs.

My friend ate like a pig for a year straight, gained 45pounds of weight, looked huge, kept working out through all that, taking supplements, and finally cut weight. The guy looks huge, and muscular. But he even estimates he only gained 7-8 pounds of actual muscle. At the most. It's a grueling process to grow your body like that, and especially to feed a huge body like that and keep it that big. Dont expect Mir to look like Brock anytime soon. Legally atleast.

I will admit he's looking impressive, and taking the steps to stay competitive in the heavyweight division.
tommyhammersticks- February 24, 2010 at 3:51 pm
And Cain is maybe 250 at fight time, with flab. I know he's a darling but he should go to LH and dominate. Mir or Lesnar will knock him out. Every time Congo connected, Cain was hurt. Mir destroyed Congo.
tommyhammersticks- February 24, 2010 at 3:48 pm
I totally agree with tnbp. Thanks tnbp. I no need think. Tired now.
howardsternspenis- February 24, 2010 at 3:26 pm
i am not new to the internet, your flames dont affect me...i sir will not be killing myself.
Clue-by-Four- February 24, 2010 at 3:18 pm
@howardsternspenis

I wish you were Howard's penis because I think his cock wouldn't be nearly as stupid as you appear to be. Please kill yourself.
tnbp- February 24, 2010 at 3:12 pm
@Dazed

Mir has actually put on at least 20 pounds of muscle. His strategy at UFC100 was to try and beat Brock in a stand-up battle (which was the dumbest strat, ever, IMO), so he ended up losing a little weight to try and become quicker. His official weight for that was 245 and he looked slimmer and more cut than he had in years.

His fight against Kongo saw him working with a new powerlifting trainer specifically to put on gobs of muscle to be able to handle the power of the bigger heavyweights. He weighed in for that fight at 265 and looked the biggest and most muscled that he's ever been, by far. By my estimates, he came into the cage at maybe 280-285 that night and his body was completely re-invented.
howardsternspenis- February 24, 2010 at 2:47 pm
meh lol ar er, big fuckin difference, hes still a polesmoker...and i hate him either way you spell it...
DazedNConfused- February 24, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Did Mir really pack on 20 pounds of muscle? I don't think so man. That shit's all hype. Look at his last Lesner bout, he was already getting huge. In those weigh-ins where he had all that super gangster shit on I remember I thought he could school Lesner. Then bam, assrapage.

I know Mir is getting larger, probably gained ~5 pounds of muscle and still has time to do more but I just dont think hes going to be the one to get Lesner. Trust me I hate Lesner to an extent. I dont like him being champ, makes it seem like as long as your big, you'll win via dumb shitty hammer punches. But Mir isn't the heavyweight version of Royce Gracie. Not one bit.

I think Cain has the biggest shot so far, with Carwin creeping a close 2nd. But yah a 3rd match of Lesner vs. Mir is worth a watch for all intensive purposes. Id just rather see the other 2 fights first.
macreadysshack- February 24, 2010 at 2:24 pm
You know that guy who said, 'just spell my name right,'? I hate lesnar so much that I refuse to spell his name right.
howardsternspenis- February 24, 2010 at 2:14 pm
i can answer those for him

A. fuck lesnar...i would shoot all ten clones in the face with a .50 cal then take that same .50 cal to the dome of whatever moron cloned that fuckbag...

B. im willing to bet that he doesnt have many of either....but if he does, they deserve to die or be tortured just for supporting this assclown.

C. koschek in a club?? i hate that fucker too....kill him...
paskhl- February 24, 2010 at 2:11 pm
He tried a couple of ankle locked,but that's it!Not the Mir we usually see in the cage!
I think Carwin 's got better chances because of his good wrestling and his strength(tall and big)
I hate to correct someone else grammar(since I'm not English!)but it's not Brock Lesner,but LESN"A"R(or,big fat bully that I hate)
Have a good one buddy
macreadysshack- February 24, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Hey, Proffessor, looks like you and howardsterspenis need to have a little hate-off. Tell us how much you hate Mir because right now, you're not even close. You can't just say, 'as much as howardsternspenis X10' or something like that. Not after all the work he put into his hatred.

A. Would you save Mir if he was being raped to death by ten Lesnar clones and Lesnar himself?

B. If you had the opportunity and would not get caught, would you do anything to his family or friends?

C. You're in a nightclub. There's a big super drunk guy with a Jew-Fro and chin pussy pubes. He's drunk and stumbling around. What do you do?
Wrye Bash- February 24, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I got Mir via first round murder. You guise.
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