the fact is that a promotion is liable if they know a fighter is using or has used and they can be under investigation and fined. UFC would never test and should never test to protect the business. It’s actually very simple. The way it is now UFC makes money no matter what, fighters get tested after the fight. If you were a promotion would you test? I think not. Business is about money in the pocket folks.

@ccman: I understand your concerns, but let’s be clear about comprehensive testing performed by promoters. This would have to be predicated by boilerplate contract restructuring. As I see it, the promoter would hold the fighter liable if they throw an event into jeopardy if they fail pre-event random drug screening or if events come to light after the fact that said fighter was lying to cover their ass.

This is backed up by the fact that the promoter would have to scramble at the 11th hour to get a new match lined up. This could result in lost revenues because as I said before, are you really excited to see two tomato cans fight or would you prefer to see a grudge match on New Year’s?

Whatever penalties levied against a fighter by the promoter would be completely independent of anything a State Athletic Commission could slap down. Remember when Matt Lindland got in trouble with the UFC allegedly for wearing an unsanctioned t-shirt at an event weigh-in? That was entirely up to Zuffa’s discretion. They could penalize a fighter. Instead of a main card or main event fight, they could drop the fucker down to an unaired preliminary fight. They could dock the fighter’s purse for their next event. This does not necessarily run contrary to what a state athletic commission could levy against a fighter who pisses hot.

And if Strikeforce or Bellato can’t cover the cost of random drug testing of their fighters, that’s their fucking problem. It will be absolutely clear which promoter has the cleanest fighters because they can afford to ensure to the general public and to their customers that they have the cleanest fighters.

@ El Guapo

Crocodile Dundas?

Promoter testing is great right up to promotor clean vs commission dirty happens.

Promoter testing is great in the ufc. What of strikeforce? Local promotions? You trust coker to either actually do this and or not lie about results? I do not. They are too broke and to desperate (see barnett\daley signing)

Promoter testing is great right up to the second a commission refuses the results.

End of day once again we over simplify complex issues based on emotions. And anyone who uses bigger stronger faster as a reference obviously must exclude themselves from the debate. The word is sucker.

What wrong with the system in place now..their catching people aren’t they? And the people they don’t catch so what?
Everyone is acting all hot and bothered because you mouthpiece meat head poster boy tested and suddenly “its a sporting disaster…. we’ll run 2 articles everyday until somebody in tinternetsland can find a reasonable solution!!”

I couldn’t agree more, my friend. Now that Chael Sonnen is mma’s ‘Roger Clemens’, the subject is unfortunately the topic of mainstream, household discussion. This is beyond terrible on so many levels and for so many reasons! In my humble opinion, the sport (in the U.S and Canada, at least) ought to be forcibly cleaned up…1919 Chicago Black Sox style, if necessary.
Besides, this sport doesn’t need to be in the pocket of any more crime organizations. (Maybe North American mma needs a more practical commisioner than can punish fighters for such infractions. Go be in a prison gang if you wanna fuck up the natural balance of the game!) In addition to your statement: “Athletes who test positive for any banned substance shouldn’t be allowed to fight until they can test clean.” I agree whole-heratedly… But that same heart REALLY bleeds for the fighter who trained his balls off and came to the party with clean piss. What about that guy? (Or girl… gotta love some female mma, too!) I think an automatic disqualification should be handed down, regardless; give the clean fighter the win. (Hey, that’s what the Olympic Committee does! Aren’t some of the most talented of these fighters already familiar with that formality, anyhow?) When we put the win record of one of these under-handed, ego-maniacs on the line, maybe they’ll learn to respect the purity of this sport.

@ Medrare, thanks for the condolences man, I’m still hurtin,
as for the the piss ant thing, I would never take offence from one of your comments, I know the spirit you post in and only insecure fucktards would get butthurt

Now, on to the real issue, you say you do it with your Female cousins, well there’s definitely nothing wrong with that, I’m gonna try that next family reunion, I knew I was doing something wrong, …. Doin it with the Female cousins, Fuck me dead, you pick up something new every day!

The Chael Sonnen of intra family relations, is that cause you both had burning peepee’s?

Having the promoter test its own fighters leads to a conflict of interest. It is in the interest of the promoter to make sure their fighters test clean. The expense of the actual tests in addition to canceling or reshuffle fights would lead to losing millions.

I don’t think the testing would be very random or anonymous if the promoter tested the fighters, especially for the big draw fights.

@ FBF

First off, I should clarify that the do-nothing, busy-body piss-ants I was referring to are the athletic commissions (and any other govn licensing body that makes it their mission to save us from ourselves).

Second, sorry about the Raiders.

Third, I understand your point but still think we shouldn’t bother ourselves over the liver-condition of grown men.

Lastly, wtf is with the reference to cousin-fucking. My cousin happens to be quite hot and great in bed. No, it didn’t hurt anyone. Yes, it felt good during and afterwards. And I don’t see what’s not right about it. Sure, we were on an epic meth-bender. Sure, we did it in a gas station restroom. Sure, it burned when I peed for weeks afterwards. But she didn’t get pregnant (by me) and no long-term harm was done. I suppose I’m just the Chael Sonnen of intra-family sexual relations, huh?

@ medrare, I know we’re in different camps on this one, and I respect all your points, but to me, my opinion only, taking PED’s is a bit like fuckin your cousin (no, not your cousin medrare) it doesn’t really hurt anyone, and it feels good afterwards, but there’s just something not right about it.
IMO this is an issue that will never be resolved, athletes will use PED’s, testers will try and keep up, athletes will test positive and old Fuddy duddies like me will wring their hands in anguish, post on CP and nothing, I repeat nothing will change.
i Just dont like it, I know Benoit was an extreme example, but still.

@ munche, Hmmmm, very valid points, very valid, that does kinda put the kybosh on random testing somewhat, pretty much every organisation that has their own testing regime is based in one geographic centre, maybe just leave it as it is, IDK, its a perplexing issue.

I believe that the issue of doing as CD suggests to any degree has the potential to undermine the tenuous authority of State Athletic Commissions, however no matter what the costs, this has a lot of benefits. Zuffa would be able to present the UFC and the WEC to state legislators as self-enforcing to a much higher degree of athlete safety than in any other sport. This would go a long way to settle fears and misunderstandings about MMA to idiot public officials (Bob Reilly, I’m looking at you, you cockeyed cousin-fucking waste of carbon). The important thing to do is to respect the State Athletic Commissions no matter how corrupt or inept. No one said that a promotion can’t enforce their own rules.

Zuffa would also be able to set penalties as per violations of fighter contracts. Think about it – if Zuffa hypothetically started work on a New Year’s event, and one of the fighters screws the pooch on pissing hot, Zuffa would not only be able to slap that fucker for the cost of having to work at finding a different match as well as potential lost revenues from that fight. Who wants to see two tomato cans slap themselves when you could have seen a main event grudge match?

So, I hate to be a realist here, but how will that work? Random testing…

OK, so Rampage decides to go to England to train. Well, random test time! Who takes the sample? Does UFC fly someone to him? What if they can’t get a hold of him?

Fitch decides to go to Thailand to work on his Muay Thai at Fairtex….sorry bro, your random test came up! Again, what do they do? Does he do his own sample? Do they fly someone out? Who takes it to the lab? What lab? How is it transported?

Do fighters have to start wearing a GPS so they can find then at any time? Are they not allowed to leave the country, or state? Guys are all over the world, moving around, changing training camps. How do you keep track of these guys well enough to give them “random” tests?

All this hand-wringing over what exactly?

Over rules that try (and fail miserably) to make grown men make certain decisions about what they do with their own bodies.

And there’s the fundamental fuck-up. Trying to be nannies to men who should be responsible for what they do to their bodies.

I don’t recall any fighters in Pride being strong enough to knock anyone’s head off their shoulders. And as for the long-term damage. I’m sure if we just let it be, science would find great ways to mitigate such damage.

This isn’t a “disaster” and this isn’t the end of Sonnen (unless he wants it to be). This is just more do-nothing, busy-body piss-ants babbling about not much of anything.

(Can’t wait to see Silva v Belfort.)

@ Shaky, damm straight my friend, I know its getting to be an outdated almost romantic notion, but to me MMA is about challenging yourself and using your natural attributes to their full potential to keep improving. I know you still have to put the effort in when using PED’s but IMO theres a big difference. We all know there are long term side effects from using PED’s and once again I make the point, do you want to give the Green light to people to fuck up their bodies long term for short term gain?.
If Dana went about it the right way, he could bring in a drug testing policy that works with the SAC’s rather than against them.
And yes, I am firmly in the anti PED camp, I pose the question: How many of you shook your heads in exasperation and cussed him for being a stupid fucker when you heard about Sonnen pissing hot?

Word up! I say legalize everything!

Yes, there is a risk that if you start testing tomorrow, a lot of people will be in the shit because they’re on something. But Dana knows this and if this did come into effect, he would make damn sure everyone knows when the testing will come into effect and it will be far enough away that everyone has a chance to clean up. Those who don’t… well… they’re on they’re own.

I don’t think undermining the state commissions is the way to go.

Instead, the commission should draw blood on fighters when they apply for their licenses, have them piss the week before and then draw blood after they fight.

Problem solved.

Yeah because that dosent undemine the commissions, and is good value for a business, spending money to put out negative press for itself….fail

why do we think the UFC will pay its own money to bring bad press on their guys?Professional sports franchises the UFC included don’t give a shit about the “honesty” factor. They want the most butts, in the most seats. And that means freak athletes. However, modern fans are totally naive and don’t want to know what actually goes on (the same way they dont care how their meat is raised etc.) so the solution is clear: halfass testing. Now, how is this exactly the UFC’s job to fix singlehandily?

What more do you want the UFC to do? Their testing is more rigorous than every other American sports organization. Take for example independent tests performed in Texas, a state where the commission does not mandate it.
I don’t know where the idea that “Olympic Style” drug testing is the king of all fucking tests. For the Beijing Olympics, slightly less than half the participants were tested, and of those tested, only about 20 percent were subject to blood tests.
The UFC should not be held to any higher standard, in the past they have gone along with a commission’s suspension, though other states do not necessarily have to abide by one commission’s suspension.
Yes, their is likely a problem in all major sports, what else can you expect to be done? If anything, this bolsters credibility in that such a high profile fighter is held to the same standards each fighter is expected to be held to.

I would say who cares about steroids but I can’t. We have all seen what happens from excessive steroid use thanks to the WWE. How many premature deaths have they had most like do to them now? I say if you want to damage your body, go right ahead. But what about the fighters who don’t want this want to use steroids? I’m sure plenty of fighters would never take them due to health concerns and good for them. But then these fighters are always at a disadvantage?? Doesn’t sound right to me.

Also, I’m not defending Carwin, but everybody who is saying he roided during the Brock fight obviously didn’t read about his steroid issue. His name was on a list of athletes who got roids from a doctor, but I think the investigation was conducted in like 2003. So he didn’t piss hot manliness after his fight. He may not have even touched the stuff for the better part of the last decade. Still… not defending him, just clarifying.

@ dano – you are absolutely right! It was East Germany, though.

Nice job by Dundas for standing by what he wrote by attaching his initials to it. CD is the new BG.

@Goat

CD is Dundas.

Also, “Bigger, Stronger, Faster” was a documentary done by a guy who is considering taking steroids and who has two brothers who take steroids as well. They only have one credible expert on the whole documentary that says steroids aren’t bad for you and the rest of the people saying it’s not bad for you are steroid using bodybuilders. It’s not exactly an in-depth investigative report. And just because something is a documentary doesn’t mean it has to be factually accurate. Just look at anything Michael Moore has done.

I’m pretty sure anabolic steroids as we know them today were created by German scientists who wanted to use them to prove that germans were the superior race in the Olympics. They kept very detailed records of what they gave to athletes, how it affected them, and any side effects that occurred. They found that there were long term side effects of steroid use, so I’m going to trust the scientists word over some guy living in a van outside of a gold’s gym.

Whoa whoa whoa, who let Dundas write during a weekday? Heads will roll…

Two words: LADDER MATCHES!

There’s one ladder in the centre of the octagon with a suitcase full of syringes dangling from the top. Whoever gets to the top first gets to use them. Where’s your jiu-jitsu now playboy!?!?!?

The only thing that Fail Sonnen was doing over the counter was laying on it while Carwin injected those anabolic “natural steroids” right in his ass.

Great minds (and dumb shits) think alike.

I enjoyed Bigger, Faster Stronger, but I think you missed one of the main points. If you could take a drug that gave you more money, power, and fame for some side effects, would you? Of fucking course you would.

The only option to get rid of the drugs is to make the penalty outweigh the benefit. If you have a random test by the UFC for drugs four times a year you are not spending a million dollars. I can tell you that right now. Tests do not cost that much. Give fighters a banned substance list along with over the counter shit that can trigger it and then adopt a 90 day suspension for every dirty test. Not rocket science.

The athletic commissions are fucking useless, nepotistic organizations with no teeth, competence or respect. The ultimate fighter has proven UFC can homegrow talent just as fast as they can recruit from other options. If you’re not on the program you’re fucking out. End of story.

CD=Crocodile Dundee

CD, who ever the hell you are, good article…nothing like that crappy neo-nazi article I wasted precious minutes reading instead of looking at the sweet ass of the girl I sit next to at work…thanks

Yeah, doing your own testing isn’t going to piss the commissions off and basically scream that they’re incompetent or anything.

Nice post Dundas!

Kudos for tagging your name to your articles.

Testing the way suggested in the article costs a shit load of money. $20000 per test, 4 times/year and 250 fighters on contract = 20 mil.

add to that the cost of getting stars you’ve spent milions on promoting failing the tests or crap fights because clean fighters would gas out in 2,5 min instead of 25 and you got your self… eh… strikeforce

This is a terrible idea.

Testing for roids is expensive and will literally shed the UFC of most of its heavy talent. Everybody uses performance enhancing drugs, whether they are illegal or not. This is not news, and to believe otherwise is naive.

CD (whoever the hell you are), watch the documentary “Bigger, Stronger, Faster”. It gives a lot of information that coincides with what the UFC is facing, from both fans and fighters. Great, great stuff.

@bloodsport: If the UFC handles its own testing they can handle it quietly without any suspensions. I guess if the AC testing didn’t suck they’d be doing that to prevent too many positives.

Dundas, good idea… only catch, IMO, IS the lack of a fighters’ union.

MLB and NFL have their own cyclical drug-testing and lack invasive blood testing, sure, but the power of the PA of both leagues made this happen by trying to maintain a ‘fair’ deal for every one of its players when it comes to testing cycles, and to assist players as much as they could if and when they are caught cheating with PED’s. Who’s gonna be there for these fighters if they pop positive under a UFC-mandated drug test? All of this seems to lead to a slippery slope argument of how there’s need for oversight on both parties, promoters and fighters. As well as salaries for fighters, etc. And we all know how much of a fucking mess these battles can become during arbitration/collective bargaining agreement time. And that’s just another

Bottom line, as has been said, most if not all fighters in the UFC piss hot. Thing is, we just don’t know it. But yet we do.

They all use PED’s of some sort. To think otherwise would be reta… Not smart.

It’s just a matter of which supplements are banned and which aren’t. Never understood how you could get suspended for smoking herb or taking some over the counter stuff. Crazy world, I tells ya.

Read BE’s post. They basically were saying that steroids don’t cause damage to people. Regardless of whether that is true or not they do make you hit harder. I know I’m repeating myself from another comment but surely if everyone is one steroids (I know lots probably are) then they are hitting significantly harder. If people hit much harder, then they damage their opponents brain more, which is bad mmkay.
I know it seems a silly opinion in a sport that is about damage, but really I think MMA is about testing yourself (your natural self) against other people and testing your skills, with steroids, that is not the case.

@ bloodsportmmadotcom – Past two title bouts – are you saying Frankie Edgar is using? Did BJ’s mom give you that information?

That loud, sucking sound you hear? That’s an MMA Fighters Union being formed.

PEDs will always be around and the people who make them will always be a step ahead of the tests. UFC and other organizations can only try and regulate it as best they can but I’m pretty sure that most big name fighters are on something or have been on something at some point.

I think you pretty much solved this riddle with your last line there. None of these guys, including the commissioners of the other sports like bud selig give a shit about steroids. All they care about is making their sport profitable. Do you think Dana White really gives a shit about steroids? He just pretends to give a shit to legitimize his business. He fucking signed Gilbert Yvel to a contract for Christ’s Sake. That should tell you right there whether Dana white gives a shit about what’s morally right. More testing just means more cancelled fights and more problems for him. He’ll never do it.

Seriously? Undermining the individual commissions is your best solution? After all the work that has gone into getting the commissions on board, now we turn around and say “Well, thanks for the help, we’ll take it from here?” It is impossible to need the legitimacy of the AC’s around the country, while simultaneously telling them they are not up the job.

bloodsport – nail on the head.

This issue is not about the money spent to implement testing, its about the money lost if/when 50%+ of fighters turn up dirty and have to serve suspensions. UFC is scared of the truth, because the truth is that MMA is much dirtier than anyone would like to admit as we’ve already seen the past two title bouts tainted by PED scandal. That’s what we know… imagine how much we don’t…

Sonnen is the only guy capable of making a dumber face while hitting a guy than the guy who is actually get face smashed. What a unique talent.