Steroids in MMA
Which MMA Fighter Will Test Positive For Steroids Next?

Jon Jones Seeks No-Contest Ruling After DQ Loss to Hamill

Jon Jones Matt Hamill TUF 10 Finale
(Tell him, Dana…)

After he was slapped with a disqualification loss following the 12-6 elbow incident at the The Ultimate Fighter 10 Finale, Jon Jones told reporters that he was at peace with the fight’s result: "I try to look at everything in life for the best, and now I’m not worried about being undefeated anymore. I can go out there and be more relaxed…I’m going to bounce back stronger."

But after a couple days to reflect and re-watch the fight, Jones and his management team are somewhat less at peace with the DQ ruling, and they now plan to appeal the decision. Their argument rests on a subtle but important point: It was Matt Hamill‘s shoulder that prevented him from continuing in the fight, not his illegally-busted nose, but he wasn’t able to communicate that information to referee Steve Mazzagatti because he couldn’t hear or see what was going on, and his sign-language-interpreter wasn’t brought in to help clarify.

First, Jones’s rep Jason Genet:

Let’s be clear, Jon is not "unhappy" he feels as all things happen for a reason. We are protesting the L because we felt that Jon’s opponent could not effectively communicate why he could not continue…Jon should have been deducted a point for the accidental illegal blow. Matt should have been treated like we treat the Brazilians and given 5 minutes to regroup and offered a translator so the ref could make the right call and understand Matt could not continue due to his shoulder injury not the blow. This should be a NC for both fighters but not a loss. Hammil continued with an injured shoulder and only complained once the action was stopped (warrior) but the fight was stopped based on the shoulder injury in our opinion.

Now, an excerpt from an interview that TheGarv did with Jones’s co-managers Ryan Ciotoli and Gary Marino: What should the ref have done differently?
Gary Marino: The ref said to Matt Hamill, "Are you done?" but Matt didn’t answer and he called the fight. If he would have stood Matt up, cleaned the blood out of his eyes, and brought in his interpretor, he would have found out right there that Matt could not continue due to the shoulder injury. The commissioner said at the press conference that if an illegal blow is the cause of the end of the fight, then it has to be ruled a DQ. But in reality, the illegal elbows did not end the fight, it was the shoulder injury. If the ref had communicated better, he would have seen it was the shoulder not the nose.
Ryan Ciotoli: I also think that Matt felt he’d lost the fight and didn’t see Mazzagatti standing over him. Mazzagatti should have cleaned off Matt’s face and brought in the doctor to evaluate him. Brazilians have translators; Matt does as well. But his interpretor was not used by the ref. Jones did throw some questionable elbows. Jon was looking for a different angle and it wasn’t intentional. And if you look at the slow motion replay, it doesn’t look like 12 to 6, there was a curve to it. Maybe 12 to 7 or 12 to 8. Plus there was no warnings from the ref prior to the stoppage. So you feel the ref could have communicated better with Hamill?
Gary Marino: Absolutely. He seemed to forget that he was dealing with a guy who was deaf. If a guy gets a low blow would you stop it if he didn’t respond to a question because he was gagging from the pain? No. You would communicate with him. The ref should have checked his condition. There was a definite lack of communication. The illegal elbow did not contribute to the stoppage, it was the shoulder separation. If he would have communicated properly with Hammill, he would have realized it was the shoulder.

Overturning the UFC’s first-ever use of the instant-replay might be an impossible task. And if it were any other set of fighters, you could say that Steve Mazzagatti acted brilliantly; he stopped a fight when he saw an illegal blow, and called it a disqualification when the illegal-blow receipient couldn’t continue. Unfortunately, Matt Hamill is deaf and his eyes were drenched in blood at the time, which changes the situation significantly.

As soon as I saw Mazzagatti hover over Hamill and start asking him if he was okay — before waiting for Hamill’s face to be wiped, before bringing in Hamill’s interpreter — I knew that somebody was going to get screwed. It didn’t appear that Hamill knew he was being asked if he could continue. Did he think Jones had won the fight by TKO, and was he taking a moment to collect himself before getting to his feet? Would he have continued fighting if he knew he could have a five-minute recuperative interval before restarting? And if not, would it have been because of the illegal elbows or his injured shoulder? Hopefully Hamill himself will be able to share some insight soon on what he thought was taking place in the last moments of the fight — because miscommunication could be just as responsible for the way things turned out as Jones’s downward elbows.

Cagepotato Comments

Showing 1-25 of comments

Sort by : Show hidden comments
The Mad Montrealer- December 10, 2009 at 6:50 am
I think the real issue is the reffing. judging and commission inconsistencies, which leads to debates such as this. At the event just prior to this one, there was an illegal knee to a grounded opponent and no instant d/q. If they always immediately disqualified any fighter who committed any illegal manoeuvre, I'd be fine with Jone's d/q because he is expected to know and abide by the rules, and those were illegal elbows. But that just isn't the case.
The Mannificent Montrealer- December 9, 2009 at 6:12 pm
When all is said and done, Bones will not only be back, but he’s the future of the Light-Heavy division and at the very least, Hamil gets a free win as karmic compensation for his robbery at the hands of Bisping.

I agree with everything Jones’ camp is saying. But it don’t matter. The same people that brought you the terrible reffing and the Cecil “Mr. Magoo” Peoples utterly ridiculous scores that have cost so many fighters their wins, in a sport where one or two losses means your livelihood, have decided that this is the way it is. Get angry all you like. Get angrier than me that Bones got robbed (which is actually impossible, I already had an embolism, but cause of my mannifficence I sucked it up). It doesn’t matter. We all know that the system if flawed. Chyagonnado?

How in Jeebus’ name can a professional say that he checked with a fighter about whether they were all right to continue when they were deaf and blind Helen Keller style? Hell, they ask guys who are out on their feet and having a conversation with their mother’s ghost if they’re ok before they stop a fight. Don’t even get me started about the interpreter thing!

People have gotten NCs for doing a whole lot less than cutting a man. Heath Herring got a NC for knocking Yoshihiro Nakao the expletive out before the fight even began (Cause that’s not as bad and certainly not deliberate). Alistair Overeem got a NC for kneeing Cro Cop’s pills into his upper lung and it was the third time he kneed him in the happy sack that fight! Granted those NCs were in Japan but the principal is there.

There have been other DQs in the UFC. Anderson Silva for a soccer kick. Luis Cane for a knee to a downed opponent (Irvin was KO’d). Wes Sims for stomping Frank Mir in the gut. But do you know what the difference between these fights and Jones’ is? All of those foul strikes were THE DIRECT AND SOLE REASON THAT THE FIGHTER COULDN’T CONTINUE! The reason, the ONLY reason, Hamil couldn’t continue was because of his shoulder.

Yes Hamil’s nose cut was nasty. It was a nasal vagina (although Struve’s Frankenforehead and Dewees' blood faucet were worse). But was it in too dangerous a position to allow him to keep fighting? A referee does not have the authority to stop a fight due to a cut no matter how nasty he thinks it is. He can only call time out and have the doctor inspect it. The doctor can stop the fight if he thinks the cut is too dangerous BUT THE DOCTOR NEVER EVEN INSPECTED HAMIL’S CUT BEFORE MAZAGATTI STOPPED THE FIGHT! I don’t even know if the doctor inspected the cut after the fight (during the replay period) to determine if it was worthy of a doctor stoppage. (Maybe I’m smoking crack here but I never heard what the doctor’s decision was on the cut).

Mad Montrealer brought the science when he pointed out the rules of no contest (don’t try to tell us apart; we have Killer Bees masks!). It should be a No Contest. Period. But that shit don’t matter. Mazagatti says it wasn’t an accident.

Mazagatti’s back door is the word deliberate. It takes three fouls to be disqualified unless your opponent can’t continue due to a DELIBERATE foul. As long as Mazagatti says the elbow was deliberate, the DQ stands. Now go ahead, debate “deliberate” all you want. Was it? Wasn’t it? Was he out to hurt Hamil? What did he gain by breaking a rule when he was owning Hamil? Does ignorance of a rule or lapse of judgement make it ok? Should he have gotten a warning? Is a warning enough for an illegal strike? Was he frustrated because he was raining blows down and was in such control that he stopped, looked at Mazagatti and asked him why he wasn’t stopping the fight and Mazagatti said go ahead and kill him for all I care, so he just kept striking to try and wrap it up and ultimately landed two illegal elbows (one to the nose and one to the forehead) in a fight that should have been stopped way earlier? Debate it all you want. None of you are Bones so none of you know if it was deliberate. None of you are Mazagatti so none of you know why he thought it was deliberate. And none of it, none of it, takes away from the fact that outside of the word deliberate Steve Mazagatti fucked this up in just about every conceivable way he could and could not have fucked it up worse if he tried.

Which begs the question. Did he try to fuck it up?

You want a shit storm? Black man number two that Mazagatti has fucking robbed of a win!

That's right. I went there.

-The Mannificent Montrealer
sublimesurf74- December 9, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Personally I don't even see those elbows as illegal. If you notice he comes down at the 12 to 6 angle but turns his arm and hits him with the forearm not the point of the elbow which is what that rule is trying to protect against. That rule is strictly referring to elbows that come down directly to the point of the elbow - like the ones Rogan was talking about with breaking ice.
phaderlanx- December 9, 2009 at 12:20 pm
phaderlanx- December 9, 2009 at 12:09 pm
fACEBITER7 with the winning comment. but its still interesting to see no doubt.
superflat- December 9, 2009 at 10:44 am
The beauty is that a win or loss on Jones' record is irrelevant. He will continue to move up in the ranks, and the UFC will pretend this never happened. Hamill is officially a gatekeeper.
Eduardo_Graca- December 9, 2009 at 9:54 am
if the fight were to be judged stopped by the throw, than jones should be looking for a tko victory, not a no contest.
This kid grooves solid but is in serious need of taking a look at a certain book.
NomadRip- December 9, 2009 at 5:00 am
The only DQ should have been for Maz not stopping the fight when he should have, which was well before unanswered ground-and-pound blow from the mount numbers 89 and 90.
LetMeStickItInYourRua- December 8, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Less serious talk. More fedor and dick jokes.
Dyph- December 8, 2009 at 9:50 pm
At the end of the day I see a couple things coming directly from this fight and as such reasons this should NOT be overturned to a NC. First of all, I could honestly give a damn what impact Hamill's shoulder had on the damage he underwent by ILLEGAL elbows; it's like breaking a guy's legs and blaming him for following events for not running away. Any thought or care that the fight should have been stopped earlier is nothing more at this point than side-liners once again stating that Mazz has no place reffing; dead horse unfortunately(though he handled this stoppage correctly in my opinion). The last thought is simply that, nobody is really looking at this as a loss for Jones, nobody but him that is, and he deserves nothing less. I would wager that if he were on the receiving end of those ice-picks he would be the one complaining even with the win. He deserves the loss if for no other reason than to show where "creative" elbows will get you, and make an example of the new replay system.
Arastmaus- December 8, 2009 at 8:16 pm
"Hey Jones welcome to the wide world of B.J. Penn's whining level, congrats you are a joke."

I don't think anyone else will ever quite make it to THAT level of butt-hurtedness, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

Rules is rules son. Don't break 'em.
UFC fan- December 8, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Hey Jones welcome to the wide world of B.J. Penn's whining level, congrats you are a joke.
Clue-by-Four- December 8, 2009 at 7:56 pm
He was penalized for the two illegal blows, Mazzagati had a point taken from him. At that point, the elbows were a non-issue (as far as scoring and judging were concerned). It was the shoulder injury that kept Matt from continuing and the fight should be ruled a no-contest.
Zyz Zyx- December 8, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Reading this article changed my mind on the fight. I think it was mishandled by... wait for it... Mazzagatti. In Matt's case, he couldn't answer questions and should have had his interpreter present.
Poutine Guillotine- December 8, 2009 at 6:44 pm
If you look at all the strikes Bones threw on the ground the only ones that caused major damage were the illegal strikes. Matt didn't tap when his shoulder was busted, he was still in the fight (although no so competitively) until the 12-6's. Mazz stopped the fight to detuct a point for the severity of the delibrate blows.

If Bones had kicked Hamill in the balls, and Mazz saw the severity deserved a point deduction and Matt was unable to continue, thats a DQ. If Bones had kicked Hamill in the balls (and Mazz missed the call) and then finished with punches that would be a TKO victory. In this case if Mazz let the elbows slide and had Jones finish the fight TKO. That didn't happen and Mazz made the right call and the fight ends on illegal elbows.

If you want to compare Mayhem vs Jacare 2. Mayhem's kick was deemed non-intentional, so he was issued a warning and then the fight was a no contest. If mayhem had kicked twice it would have been intentional and a DQ. Jones might have been able to get away with one elbow, but the second sealed his fate.

please feel free to tear away at my faulty logic and shitty spelling
LetMeStickItInYourRua- December 8, 2009 at 6:40 pm
So I found out today I have a rare form of cancer called apheliomazzagatti. It settles in the frontal lobe area of the brain and effects my ability to make common sense decisions and makes me jump into situations to stop them even when nothing has happened yet. Just the other night I was at the bar and two dudes bumped chests and I ran in a broke it up cause I thought they were fighting. Damn you apheliomazzagatti. Damn you.
ReDx- December 8, 2009 at 5:45 pm
One of Anderson Silva's losses is a DQ, he wasn't quite schooling Okami like Bones was Hamill, but it still doesn't change the fact that he's a great fighter. He just needs to get back to the cage sooner than later and deliver another beating.
My House I Build It- December 8, 2009 at 5:19 pm
yeah jones should've known better

but it is purely incidental that his intentional, illegal strike was performed on an opponent who already could not defend himself effectively

remember that fucking piledriver nate marquardt did to thales leites? totally intentional, totally illegal. but leites was fine before and after, so no loss via DQ or NC for marquardt. let's pretend that the following had happened instead: leites shoots in and blows out his knee patrick cote style, then gets piledriven(?), then lies on the mat mat clutching his knee and moaning in pain, clearly unable to continue. what would the appropriate response by the ref have been? there it's clear that the illegal move didn't end the fight, so if the ref acted accordingly, the fight wouldn't be ruled a DQ.

jones could've easily avoided this situation and gotten a win, so it's his fault in that sense, but on the other hand he doesn't deserve a DQ by any reasonable interpretation of the rules. it's also not really fair to blame the ref for not figuring out the mystery of why hammill responded to "are you okay?" by lying motionless in a shallow pool of his own blood. as the ref sees it, jones landed an illegal, intentional blow that visibly fucked up hammill, who was found to be incapacitated at that point. doesn't take a detective to figure that one out, but it ended up not being so simple, which sucks for jones.

but i wonder, if hammill's shoulder prevented him from continuing then why was he able to defend himself so well that jones felt the need to resort to an illegal technique?
vengful1- December 8, 2009 at 4:58 pm
The fight should have been stopped before the elbows. Hammill was having his head pounded into the ground like the dude from Kung Fu Hustle. Most guys also wouldn't take the time to tap (or have the clarity of mind to tap) when they are getting pounded like that. The might yell "STOP!" But since he's deaf, he's kinda stuck in that position. Mazzagatti is just inept.
micronix- December 8, 2009 at 4:29 pm
It was the wrong decision by Steve. Matt couldn't continue due to his shoulder, Jon made a mistake but that's not what stopped the fight.

Should that mean Matt doesn't get bonus money? Yes, and no... Did he earn it? no. Could he use it? Hell yes! his shoulder is broken!

Did Jon earn it?... Yes, he won the fight.

Should the instant replay procedure be reviewed? Hell yes! Steve screwed up, and that is no reason to discredit the instant replay aspect of MMA's rule system.

Just my 8c as that took like 48 minutes to write and this is a "depression."
peanutbuttter- December 8, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Maybe Steve Mazzagatti IS the worst referee in the history of the world.
steampunk22- December 8, 2009 at 3:50 pm

@Kimbos Bread lol

@jeffmcbusa Thanks man!

I'm only gonna say it this one last time, I TOTALLY called this one
robthom- December 8, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Thanks Knee.

Yeah he did make a kinda "hand in the cookie jar" face.

But with one important difference; that it really looked like it just occurred to him what he had done right at that moment, and he was just as shocked and surprised as the rest of us.

IE: Not intentional, but he knew that he fucked up right after he did it.
Kimbos Bread- December 8, 2009 at 3:44 pm
The DQ was well called for. Steve M, made the right choice.

Bones has earned the 1 loss due to DQ on his record.

If he pushes it too much, they should teach him a lesson by making a ruling that his 1 DQ from illegal shots should be announced at the begining of every one of his fights, just so the refs can keep a close eye on him in case he decides to go for any more illegal shots.
KJGould- December 8, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Funny, I thought the comission, doctor and ref used the instant replay to determine an intentional illegal elbow caused the jagged cut on Hamill's nose, and that was enough to justify the DQ.

That's the point of the Instant Replay, to assess the end of fights ending from injury by accidental or intentional fouls, so the right call can be made.

Jones and his management realise the marketing benefit of a perfect record, that's all this is.