@ UFC fan

The fact is that i due agree with the DQ, but all the other shit you say is unneeded to make your point, so back to me previous statement.... JUST END IT!

I found a video of the fight and the post fight interview, but it's crappy quality and it's from a site I rather not attract attention to.

Anyway, the portion that I was referring to goes as follows:
Joe Rogan says: "Now, you won this fight by disqualification. The elbows Jon Jones were hitting you with were illegal. Give us your thoughts on what it feels like to win this fight this way."

Hamill replies: "It happened so fast I couldn't defend with one arm, so...Jon Jones did a really good job, so...I will come back."

Joe plainly states that he won and he still acts like he lost. So, either he just felt completely dominated despite winning or he had no idea he won the fight, which still makes me think he thought he lost by TKO even if Joe states how he lost.

Also, wouldn't elbows like that from the bottom be 6-12, not 12-6? A technicality, but that's really all you need when it comes to rules.

As for this setting a precedent for other fighters to stop fighting after an illegal blow just to pick up a DQ win, I doubt that. Most other fighters have more integrity than that, they wouldn't be fighters otherwise. At most they might just take a breather and then try to finish the fight in a showcase manner, so that way they get a win and actually make a good impression on people instead of just taking a DQ win, And most illegal blows are accidental, which would result in a No Contest, but there is always the problem of whether or not a fighter is just trying to make an illegal blow seem accidental. Hughes swears GSP kicked him in the nuts to set up the high kick, and that is honestly a good tactic, even if it doesn't exactly have a place in MMA.

My only question is how exactly is accidental defined? Jon Jones obviously didn't know those elbows were illegal, even if his look up at the referee when it finally gets caught is somewhat a "oh shit I got caught" look it is most likely a "I finally won this match" look, and therefore it was in some ways accidental - he meant to use that strike, but he had no intention of using an illegal strike as he did not know it was illegal. That's why illegal strikes usually results in a warning and a point deduction, because sometimes you just screw up, but if this was an accidental illegal blow then wouldn't it be ruled a No Contest?

I still think this match could have gone longer, though. Really, it seems to me like Hamill thought he had lost by TKO and that was why he didn't get up after Jones was pulled off of him, regardless of his shoulder.

What happens the next time someone gets kicked in the junk? Can he just say he's too messed up to continue and get the win by disqualification? The fight was ended by an illegal blow. This is just typical inconsistency in the officiating and adjudicating that is plaguing this sport right now, and making it look foolish.

people like clinch-suck, and dick23 are hopeless and moronic they never learn, facts are right in front of their stupid faces and they keep beating the dead horse. We boys you can keep hating me all you want but your stupid as fuck to think Jones didnt deserve the DQ, luckily for the rest of the reasonable world it is a done dada, he lost cause he has ZERO control and is a fuckup waiting to happen. Course so are his fanboys.

@Dru23 Nobody knew at the time that his shoulder was fucked, Mazzagotta asked Hamill if he could continue and Hamill said "No", not "No I cannot continue because my shoulder is probably broken but my nose is fine so don't worry about those elbows that Jones threw". Regardless of the whether or not Hamill could continue as a result of the shoulder damage, that was not apparent at the time, the only thing that WAS apparent was Jones landing two/three illegal blows, so now he pays the price. Hindsight is 20/20 is doesn't change the fact that Jones striking was illegal. Its too bad because up until then he had a highlight reel fight going for him and its unfortunate that it has kind of a dark cloud over it now.

@Cestus The jist of it is that Jones buried himself when he threw OBVIOUSLY intentional illegal strikes. He has previously gotten away with his striking as being "accidental" but due to the obvious intent, he sorta fucked himself. Read the following it will explain it more in depth, a little combination of the NAC and the Unified Rules:

If I fighter cannot continue, partially or wholly as a result of damage sustained by illegal blows, it will be ruled a disqualification regardless of what round the fight is in. Thats why it was not ruled a No Contest

"Doctor Stoppage: the referee will call for a time out if a fighter's ability to continue is in question as a result of apparent injuries (such as a large cut). The ring doctor will inspect the fighter and stop the match if the fighter is deemed unable to continue safely, rendering the opponent the winner. However, if the match is stopped as a result of an injury from illegal actions by the opponent, either a disqualification or no contest will be issued instead."

"Disqualification: a "warning" will be given when a fighter commits a foul or illegal action or does not follow the referee's instruction. Three warnings will result in a disqualification. Moreover, if a fighter is injured and unable to continue due to a deliberate illegal technique from his opponent, the opponent will be disqualified.

No Contest: in the event that both fighters commit a violation of the rules, or a fighter is unable to continue due to an injury from an accidental illegal technique, the match will be declared a "No Contest"."

I understand the fight being stopped for the illegal blows, which I believe didn't do much damager, but thats besides the point, Im thinking, wouldn't the fight be considered a no contest? Like if the fight passes a certain length, then it goes to the score cards but this was in the first round. Im a little lost as to why is wasn't ruled a no contest.

@ ufc fan:

so now all of a sudden because it proves your point the nsac is perfect and what it says is solid gold? the fact of the matter is that was wrong, those elbows ARE NOT the ones the caused the damage, and those elbows had nothing to do with the fact of him not being able to continue, which is what both kizer and mazz are using as reasoning, the reason he couldnt continue was his shoulder, had nothing to do with the 2 downward elbows (which as was previously stated were only 2 of the nearly 100 strikes thrown from that position). so therefor their logic is flawed. they actually didnt even cause the cut, but even if they did, the cut is not the reason hammill could not continue by any means. so please do not tell me "shut up" because jones WAS treated unfairly. good day to you sir.

HeadsWillRoll Says:
Sun, 12/06/2009 - 13:29

@UFC Fan:

I'm sure that took a lot of courage. I'm glad people like you are out there defending our precious country.

@ UFC Fan:

You see what you did here. Really nice integrity and mil bearing. It's fucks like you that give the Mil a bad name, thanks alot fucker, your such a piece of shit, really just do us all a favor and Lift your head up high and BLOW your brains out!

You're right Ben, Mazzagotti is not the worst ref, that honor belongs to Dan Miragliotta.

"NSACs Keith Kizer explains to MMAJunkie.com the decision to DQ Jon Jones at The Ultimate Fighter 10 Finale due to illegal elbows to the face of Matt Hamill:

Kizer said despite the numerous legal blows that came in the barrage - as many as 85 depending on who's counting - the fact that the illegal blows were shown to have caused the damage meant disqualification was the only proper call.

"At the end of the day, you have the illegal elbows that cut [Hamill] up, and that's why it was stopped," Kizer told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "The only call you can make in that situation is a disqualification.

"Because there was definitely some damage done by lawful elbows, it was difficult to determine what caused what until he saw the instant replay. Then it was very easy. It would have been a tough call for him without the instant replay just due to the good strikes that preceded the illegal blows. That's why we added it."


you idiots need to shut up who thinks Jones was treated unfairly.

If the fight was stopped earlier, we wouldn't be in this lil mess thats for sure. But then what would we have to debate about? ;P

Jones wont slip in rankings and gets a loss that everyone knows isnt a loss, Hamill will train harder for his next fight and knows he's got to be better to survive in LHW, everyone learns to be a little more careful on the playground next recess break. Win/Win/Win in a weird sort of a way. Lessons learned.

^^ Exactly. Look at the .gif at the top of the page. Hamill's eyes are closed and filled with blood. He is flailing his arms around blindly, which is not intelligently defending himself.

The 2 elbows you see in that .gif are blows 89 and 90 from the time Jones mounted him. If even half of the blows Jones landed (more did), that is still Hamill getting clubbed in the noggin 45 times.

The last 2 were illegal, but the fight should have been stopped long before that point.

man...mazagatti is absolutely ridiculous. yes, bones threw the illegal blow, but its not like those 2 elbows are the reason hammill was the reason hammill couldnt get up in the first place. the fight SHOULDVE been called way before that.

that was some of the most vicious ground and pound ive ever seen. sure, its a loss, but this in no way should affect his status and his rankings in the light heavyweight division. Bones is for real, seriously. ive never seen matt hammill get his ass whooped like that, and hes a TOUGH dude.

oh well...i dont agree with the decision, but at least for once mazzagatti prevented a fighter from receiving unnecessary punishment.

Oh 831 son we have established along time ago that you are all talk and no action, you couldn't beat your own meat much less come kick my ass, you are fag from cali, this to was long ago established you can knock off the hard core it doesn't fit you. Relax before you blow a gasket...or maybe you will blow headwillbabble up there, who cares.

Why not bring back strikes to the top of the head, eye gouging, groin shots and anything else illegal. I can't believe this is so talk about. The fighter made a HUGE mistake in using illegal strikes regardless of him winning the fight.
Nice work Mazzagatti. Shut your fat head up, Dana!

^Barc You and I agree on every point about this fight. Cheers!

the rules state this, "if a fighter cant continue DUE TO AN ILLEGAL MOVE than it CAN be ruled a dq". hammill said himself he couldnt continue because of his shoulder, had nothing to do with the 2 12-6 elbows that were thrown, therefor jones could have been given the win or it imo should have been ruled no contest as has been stated over....

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that saw Hammill working to advance position most of that time. I almost got into throwing hams with one of my buddies because of it. The stoppage was correct. The DQ was correct. I think this is gonna go down as a win for Jones everywhere except his official record. Hammill won't consider it a win. Both guys showed exactly how classy they are by thier reactions. I can't wait to see them both in the cage soon.

Yup.


@goog I agree, I think this was maybe done to show fighters to be more careful. I just hope it doesn't cause Bones Jones to tone down his game too much. He can be flashy, he just needs to be a little more careful at the same time.

Yea i know. Im not denying that Jones threw illegal elbows, but I know for a fact that those 2 downward elbows weren't the ones that wrecked Hammills face necessarily. Either way, I dont really care. Its a dumb rule, and a justified stoppage by following that dumb rule.

I don't like the no contest call here because it could persuade guys like Tito... or Kimbo [who recently showed he can't handle a loss] to go ahead and throw an illegal shot like that knowing they won't lose. That may sound like a stretch, but I can think of a few guys who'd do it knowing there's no consequence.

^^^831 Son

It was a DQ because Hamill could not continue, and the two last strikes before the stoppage were illegal strikes. If Hamill could have continued the fight, it would have resulted in a point loss for Jones and thats it. Its a rare combination to actually cause a DQ but it happens.

no there actually is no warrant or rule in this situation, so you guys saying its def the right call or def the wrong call or incorrect. because there is no direct rule, hints why even after an appeal anthony "rumble" jones wasnt issued the no contest he desired, because there is no direct rule that states anything because it is directly up to the official. and the up and down elbows did not initiate the cut on the nose, the ones before that did. they eve showed that in the telecast. but in almost every other situation in which something like this has happened it was ruled a no contest not a dq. and i think that would have moreso been a right call in my opinion. because like i said, going from losing a point that still would not have even caused you that round, to losing the fight is downright ridiculous. i dont think jones by any means should have got the win but he shouldnt have got a loss either. it should have been a no contest.

^^Disagree

While no one will say that Jones wasn't winning/going to win/won that fight, the disqualification was a good call. I think that there may have been a little bit of "example making" going on, especially since Jones likes to throw those shots and this was maybe just the straw that broke the camel's back. He has to learn to be more careful. Whether or not the fight was over before he threw those strikes, he still threw them, and they're still illegal. He didn't NEED to throw those, he could've kept doing what he was doing without resorting to that variety of strike and ended the fight on a clean note. Now its cost him, and its his own fault. Rules is rules.

I'm of the opinion that Hamill was ok before those elbows (assuming we didnt know about his shoulder) and that while the fight was going to end badly for him anyways, and probably pretty quickly, he was defending himself pretty well and Jones got sloppy with the striking. Its too bad because I would've loved to have seen Jones get the victory, but not that way. Its too bad, but fair.

Okay, since there is a rule stating you cant perform elbow strikes like that, Im not going to bitch too much about the DQ. But there have been HUNDREDS of fighters that use that 12-6 elbow strike and had no DQ's or points taken. Diego did it over 30 times on Guida, Mcsweeney did it a bunch of times last night, and the list goes on, FOREVER. Those elbows werent the ones that did the most damage and the DQ is too much. A point docked off is what should have happened. And there shouldnt have even been a thought of a DQ.

At least we all know that Jon Jones will DESTROY Matt Hammill and most of the 205 division. Who gives a shit about this DQ. NSAC needs to fix that shit though.

Oh and UFC fan, Id kill you if I ever saw your worthless ass. You stupid ass white trash piece of shit. If you came out of your little dungeon and out of your inbred useless state, you would get smashed, son. Worthless faggot. Kill yourself. You are in your late 40's too (WHICH YOU ADMITTED--FAG) and you still act like a incompetent little bitch. I bet the only time you will come out of your hole is in 2012 to vote for Palin or something, seeing how you have the worst logic and ideology. I got a .45 bullet with your name on it, pussy.

I have a different opinion. I just went back and watched the fight again. From the time he takes mount to that 12-6 elbow where Mazagatti finally stepped in to stop it, I counted 90 unanswered blows. Punches, elbows of various flavors, some didn't connect, but most of them did.

That fight was a complete decimation by Jones. He threw blows while looking up at the ref more than once. Hamill was such a non-factor or threat at that point he literally was looking at the ref and still throwing bows.

The blood was already in his eyes well before that 12-6 blow, and of course now we know Matt's shoulder was broken already. The fight should have been stopped well before it was.

Jones was likely just getting bored and doing different things when he threw that 12-6. His response to the DQ was commendable, but he was in danger of freaking killing Hamill from the accumulation of blows at that point.

I don't usually get on the refs for their decisions, and can't fault them for the DQ. While a silly reason to DQ someone (Rogan's explanation of why they are illegal), the fight was over about 60 blows earlier.

Even if Matt could see through the blood puddling in his crushed eye sockets, he didn't likely understand what was going on based on what Mazagatti said to him, anyway. He knew he was done, but had no idea the reason the fight was stopped. Nothing Maz said to him would lead him to believe he could have gotten up. Not that he was able to, anyway.

The 12-6 elbow had nothing to do with that at all.

@UFC Fan:

I'm sure that took a lot of courage. I'm glad people like you are out there defending our precious country.

By the way, since it's hard to tell over the ol' internet, I should clarify that I'm being sarcastic.

You're obviously a spineless moron who only joined the armed forces (if what you've said in past postings isn't an absolute fucking lie) so that you could hurt/kill people. You might think you're a hero, but at the end of the day, you're nothing more than a coward and an asshole throwing epithets (look it up, dim wit) from the safe anonymity of a computer. If I could put money on it, I would bet that you've touched your gun and your dick at the same time no less than five times in your miserable life. I would also put money down that this will anger you to the point of engaging in a crying-masturbation session, because that's just how you roll....because you're a real fucking man. Right?

Don't go hitting or shooting anything in anger, asshole. It won't make you more right or a better person.

@dresdin

someone needs to buy you a vinegar and water because it appears you are the douche...

the dude handled the DQ well. he didn't bitch and complain about it, he was humble about it and admitted his mistake. if that makes him a douche, in your eyes, then your barometer needs adjustment.

12-6 elbows = steroids for Ken-flo's career

I'm curious to hear Jon Jones state why he didn't know those kind of elbows are illegal. That actually was good officiating by Mazzagatti. As for a stoppage, Hamill was defending decently, it was not an Al Turk pounding at all. Hamill talking at the end about his broken shoulder with his bloody face and obvious disability was one of the saddest things I've ever seen in MMA. I hope he comes back healthy.

@goog@petra Strongly agree. Hamill was doing a decent job of tying up jones, mostly blocking shots, until he started raining down the straight elbows he wasn't doing too badly.

@everlast I thought the same thing, he didnt sound like he knew that he won, said some things that didn't really make sense if he knew that he had won the fight, if you can find the clip let me know I wanna see it again.

Here's my post from 8 pages worth of CP posts ago. I'm gonna toot my own horn here and say that I basically called this one:

steampunk22 Says:
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 11:46
So this mystical barn in the backwoods on New York is where they teach spinning-elbows-to-the-back-of-the-head-which-is-totally-illegal-but-Jones-throws-them-so-fast-that-they-dont-stop-the-fight-or-even-warn-him-even-claiming-later-that-it-is-accidental-even-though-he-throws-them-in-every-freakin-fight? Sweet!

I like this kid I think he's got a lot of potential to go real deep in the division, but the back of the head strikes, however flashly and street-fighter-esque in their awesomeness are pretty fucking dodgy and I hope he cleans up his striking in that regard because he's gonna KO someone that way and its gonna be all sorts of controversial.

That being said, I hope he works Hamill over, I like Bones Jones.

---------

Maybe the Ben's will see and hook it up, T-Shirt styles. lol Come on!

Hey UFC Fan:


GO KILL YOURSELF!!


That is all

I saw the Spider get DQ'd for a knockout from his guard before...Jones v. Hamill was no surprise(if you know UFC rules) what shocked me was Mazzagatti got the stoppage correct.
Hamill definately injured himself in the fight, that was not a healthy Hamill ground game. Hamill showed he could take a shot from Jones like I thought and in the end I made money from my bet.
I could go on and on about the good things I see in Jones(attitude, athleticism, creativity) bottom line is he made a mistake in this fight and Greg Jackson was too busy meditating to fill him in on the rules of the fight......was that part of his famous game plan strategies??

@Milbury
you should help Greg Jackson.
@Everlast
Hamill completely thought he lost the fight, he was in tears and speaking about his arm.

I'll say it: that young nigger needs to learn how to control himself, he is no martial artist. Kick his stupid cheating ass out of UFC.

Hamill definitely acted like he didn't know he won. I couldn't figure out why he wasn't trying to grab Johnson's wrists until he said his shoulder was jacked.

Remember Vera vs Verdum fight? Similar situation and people started bitching about ref stopping the fight. Now the ref let the fight continue and people still complain. bullshit.

My thoughts:

Jon Jones was classy and humble after the fight despite the fact that he was obviously disappointed by the DQ.

I agree with Everlast that I didn't think Hammil was fully aware of what was going on. He seemed to be in a tremendous amount of pain from his shoulder which probably made it hard to focus on the person who was signing to him.

As much as it pains me to type this, Mazzagatti made the right call in stopping the fight and the instant replay backs him up on this. Jones is quickly becoming one of my favorite fighters, but illegal is still illegal. He's young and he got overexcited. I'm sure we won't see this from him in the future.

Was anyone else surprised that "Stopagatti" didn't end it sooner?

How the fuck is this ruled a DQ and a win for Hammil due to a fight-ending illegal blow, but Kevin Burns' retina-skewering eyepokes of Anthony Johnson resulted in Burns getting the W? Mazzagatti reffed that one too if you'll remember.

First of all, Hamill said Jones felt greasy.

Second, Hamill mostly likely could have gone the next 45 seconds defending. He wasn't eating every elbow. Not even close. The punches were better. But I like that Rogan called Jones out for a little acting. Hamill may have gone on to lose, but it wasn't gonna be from that flurry of miss-by-6 inches- elbows that Jones was selling Mazagatti.

As far as the Anthony Johnson reference, it's a lot less intentional looking if a guy gets a finger in the eye than if someone rears back, raises his arm, and drives it down on a guys face from the mount... several times. I can see Johnson/Burns being a no contest, but this one with Jones was bound to piss of someone. If it'd been called a no contest, you'd have just as many pissed off people. I personally think the right call was made.

This is still a win for Jones. Good call in my opinion. If a fighter can't continue as a result of an illegal strike then a DQ is in order. I wish more rules were enforced. I remember Chuck Liddell grabbing the fence to stop a takedown from Randy Couture during one of the fights that Chuck won. I think the result may have been different if Randy had completed that takedown. I never see points taken away for grabbing the fence or even kicking in the nuts. Jones is only 22, he's going to be great.

It wasn't the two 12 to 6 elbows that caused the damage though, so I don't think that the win should have been taken from Jones. That kid is a fucking ninja and I love it. He moves so fast and his arms are so long. 1 point would have been acceptable. But the fact that two elbows are going to take his win away is bullshit. He'd beat out Lyoto Machida with that damn reach no problem and easily steal the belt. Talk about a clash of styles.

Jon Jones is a MAN! Class act after the fight also. How many other fighters would accept that decision and still see that they were fortunate to even be there in the first place.
I think the DQ was the right call but a no contest could have done the trick.
Hamill was getting whooped that entire fight.

The only reason I can see why some are so livid with the DQ are those who lost money and/or those who have an unhealthy man-crush on Jones.

I like Jones and he definitely came out of this the bigger star/fighter, but he obviously just got too excited when he started with the 12-to-6 elbows. You'd think Jackson would be screaming at Jones to stop after the first one.

@Dru23
Mazagatti had no other choice, the other fights you sighted were examples of bad reffing this was an example of good reffing. Hammil was trying to defend himself but was just in a shitty situation, if Bones didn't use those illegal elbows he would have finished the fight anyway. At least he was classy enough to except it the way he did. He proved more about himself in that loss last night then in any of his other UFC fights.

I'll reiterate what I said in the comments of the fight results - I think Hamill thought the fight was stopped and he had lost by TKO. If anyone can find a video of the post fighter interview I believe he says something like he wasn't going to let this stop him or he was going to come back stronger or something. Of course, with the way the fight ended I think he could still benefit from trying to improve a good deal so it could still make sense, but at the same time it's a valid point. I would think that someone would have told him, though, and I assume he was wearing a hearing aid after the fight because he could hear Rogan and I didn't see anyone signing to him. It's just an idea, but it just really seems like he didn't know.

And, after seeing that gif it does look like it was those illegal elbows that busted open his nose. I guess it was just more disappointment than bullshit, lol. I just wish Hamill had been able to continue, and that fight could have had a clean ending.

at least a broken nose for Hamill he won't have to worry about it affecting how he talks.ummm. ok
and Jones is a douche hope he gets his ass whopped soon

ehh

whatever Jones just passed his biggest test with flying colors.
Jones is for real and he is going to really far in this sport.

if a fighter can't continue after two illegal strikes its a DQ good call ref. if he got soccer kicked in the face no one would say shit. I think hammil never really knew what was going on i think he thought the fight was just stopped. jones fucked up theres no excuse for not knowing the rules, its not like they were accidental.

Dru,

Your mother not aborting you - absolutely awful decision. Disqualifying Jon Jones - good decision.

Jon Jones needs to stop being a Youtube ninja and start acting more like a real MMA fighter. I'll chalk this one up to immaturity I guess.

@ Dru23 - The elbows caused a nasty gash on the bridge of Hamill's nose (which was the primary reason for stopping the fight). Also the few direct illegal blows that did land in addition to the legal ones meant that Hamill was unable to continue even if they managed to stop the bleeding somehow. It's not an ideal situation for a stoppage and DQ, but then again, thats why it's a tough call to make, and I think the right one was made.

Jon Jones hates deaf people.

Bones shouldve stuck with punches or 3-to-9 elbows & Mazz shouldve stopped the fight sooner, Hammil was not "intelligently defending" but those elbows are hella illegal so because Mazz didnt stop the fight & Jones decided to go all Bloodsport in the cage the DQ appears warranted.

i still see this as BS, as the article says, "the only call is dq"? bullshit!!! ask anthony johnson if this is true from his fight with burns, and countless other fights that have been ruled a no contest, or even fights where the person committing the infraction was called the winner. this decision absolutely makes no sense. you go from losing a point in a round you were still either gonna get the ko/tko or at the very least a 10-8 round which would only drop it to a 10-9 round. this is an absolutely awful decision.

i still see this as BS, as the article says, "the only callis dq"? bullshit!!! ask anthony johnson if this is true from his fight with burns, and countless other fights that have been ruled a no contest, or even fights where the person committing the infraction was called the winner. this decision absolutely makes no sense. you go from losing a point in a round you were still either gonna get the ko/tko or at the very least a 10-8 round which would only drop it to a 10-9 round. this is an absolutely awful decision.

Yeah, I kept thinking of how Herb Dean got booed for stopping the Mir/Sylvia fight, until the replay proved it was the right decision because Frank had snapped Tim's arm.

Ultimately, Steve made the correct call, although I'm sure he knew it wasn't going to help his rock-bottom popularity.

As for not stopping it sooner, Hamill was trying to protect himself, and even Rogan thought that Jones' pleas to stop the fight were just a ploy.

Steve just can't win: he either stops too late (Lesnar) or too soon (Rothwell).

i was pissed when i found out that it was illegal to strike like that because of how guys break ice blocks in that same technique. then i saw how bones was breaking hammill's face in the technique and it all made sense....shit, he hit hammill so hard in the face that it broke his shoulder!!! that's power!

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