Sure...and they can run towards their beloved light if they what too, I can fix it to full-auto at the blink of an eye...WINK

Huh? So you want self-assured agnostic UPS drivers to lead a nation, while hoping the religious throngs of the masses walk towards a light you are purposely trying to conceal?

Fuck all of you and your Right Wing, God fearing Republican vs. Democratic bullshit. This is a fighters website....take those made up fists of god and go beat some kid inside your church. And if you don't know how to do that, ask a Catholic, Muslim, or Jew...they prefer whipping, stoning, or kneecapping.
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If you want to come here and inject God into individual men who prefer to fight alone, then the next time you feel the need to run towards the light...make sure its coming from a concealed muzzle flash..at least then you might have had a chance at doing something honorable as a man. Kids stories of Casper the Ghost don't cut it once one's potty-trained.

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...and drop the politics, the fact is the nations in shambles again, and all the pricks that have ever managed it love to claim God is part of their skills for election victory. Maybe what is needed are politicians who have no religious preference, have worn a uniform, and who are competent to administer, make policy, and enact laws...as from the time of the nations founding, its been 200 years of the religious fucks ... who don't have a fucking clue.

You're a reasonable dude, Karma. And one of the problems with arguing about teachers is that they are a very sympathetic class. It is like talking about children - nobody wants to do anything that might hurt kids. People genuinely like and respect the profession, and are sympathetic to the teachers' predicament. However, whenever you have a sympathetic group, you have some self-serving assholes who will use that sympathy like a club to beat down their opponents, saying anyone who does not give into whatever their demands are hates teachers, or kids, or firemen, or minorities, etc. I'm not against teachers, but I am damn well against teachers' unions.
In principle, I think public sector salaries should be determined by elected officials, and not through collective bargaining, as all bureaucratic positions can then be affected democratically. Because of the services they provide and the salaries being payed by taxpayers, they are in a different class than private workers. Also, the nature of public funds supporting a public union, then those funds being used to support political allies who will then agree to increase those funds, is inherently corruptive. I think one of the largest things holding teachers back has been unions (as with a lot of industries). Unions ultimately want to protect themselves, and in as much that aligns with teachers' interests, sometimes it's useful to them. However, more often than not, it makes them subservient to the union. And in trying to protect themselves, I think they have held good teachers back. I want to see teachers held to some level of accountability, and with that would also come great reward.
There also has to be a realistic and honest debate about these issues without people saying that if someone disagrees with them they hate teachers. If a state is going to go bankrupt because it is spending at unsustainable levels, tell me who is the compassionate person - the one who asks people to make some difficult cuts so that the most people possible can keep their jobs, or the person who just tells them everything is okay and promises more money until the system collapses and everyone is out of a job? Unfortunately, the second person is the one most people seem to think is more compassionate. But to me, that person is either well meaning but willfully ignorant, just plain stupid, or may have another agenda behind that.

So what you are saying is that the Teachers Unions are funneling money into Political Campaigns and continuing the circle of evil?

Yes. Right on the money.

The teachers unions are the dirtiest of the bunch. Collective Bargining right are used to steal money directly from the taxpayers for the benfit of the teachers unions and their adgenda, not the teachers themselves. The whole education system is fucked and the students and our country are going to suffer because of it.

I suggest you stick your thumb in RWilson's belt loop and learn a thing or two from that dude.

So what you are saying is that the Teachers Unions are funneling money into Political Campaigns and continuing the circle of evil? I don't get how you can sit there and say that teachers the people we entrust our children with should not be able to bargain for wadges? Keep in mind I agree with you in several areas but when it comes to the education system which is obviously flawed to begin with I get a bit touchy. My perspective is this "teachers" the "Education system" is a special situation because when you start shitting on the people we allow to teach our kids their going to "Okay fuck it" and walk out of the class rooms. Then the only ones affected are the kids as I stated I don't mean all public sector unions because I wholeheartedly agree with you there is much corruption in a lot of those departments. I also agree the marches on wall street are acts of sheer ignorance, I don't even like the new "Rich Tax". I don't think punishing Teachers and hindering our educational system furthermore is the way to do it and if you think for a moment Teachers are going to let that slide you are mistaken. We do agree on many points though RWR.

Morning wood - Metal work, machining, fabricating, WELDING (need welders bad), assembly, packaging. South eastern WI. Just south of I94 between madison and Milwaukee.

Karma just got taken to school by RWilson. Thank you, sir. I didnt have the time.

^ Sorry for all the misspellings. Fucking iPad!

Karma - there is a distinct difference between private sector unions and public sector unions, and the ability to collectively bargain should never be granted to public sector unions. In fact, the very idea of public sector unions was anathema to most labor organizers and proponents (including FDR and AFL-CIO president George Meany) until the let 1950's because of he inherent abuses involved and they idea that the workers could extort the society they were elected to serve by halting essential services for their own benefit. It only became allowed post-WWII because of the massive increase in gov't positions, and the political ambitions of politicians who saw the inherent abuses as a way towards securing their office. Ultimately, it creates a system where the bureaucrats are being paid by politicians, and the politicians chiefly supported by the bureaucrats' unions. It is self-interested bribery, with he public sector union bosses sitting on both sides of he fence, extorting money on one side being paid by the taxpayer, then funneling that money in support of politicians who will favorably increase that money flow. It is abusive and corrupt, and it is a far cry from a private company which has incentive to bargain within limitations, since its money is not derived from taxpayers, and it still holds the ultimate means of employment. If you don't think that corruption is there, just look at the single largest campaign contributor at the state and federal level for the last 40 years - no surprise... the teachers' unions! This is followed closely by other public sector unions (and trial lawyers). People want to go march on Wall St. complaining about corporate lobbyists having undue influence over politics, but their anger would be much better directed at these public sector unions, which are nothing more than political money laundering operations.

Sgt. 606 - Where in Wi and what type of manufacturing?

I just read a article about how breaking the bargaining agreement prevented teacher from losing jobs, and the benefits now will be bid on by insurance companies for the best plans. Opposed to the union who raised the "dues" each year more then any private insurance companies. Who's on first?

- Giving towns the right to ban MMA. Has any town said they will ban it?

I run a non union manufacturing shop in Wi and we are hiring talented people as fast as I can find them. I used to be a union member until I found out what a sham it was because hard workers and lazy men were treated equal. Gov. Walker is not the brightest man but his fortitude will make this state a better place to live for the working man. Banning MMA would be stupid but it likely wont happen.

Karma - "I went to College bro"
Good for you. haha
Captcha - oputsy respected

I am not saying I don't think people shouldn't take pay cuts but really taking away their god given rights as US Citizens? You don't think taking away their bargaining rights is a little extreme? I went to College bro for a very similar topic I am well aware of how this all works RWR so I will stick to what I know. I know that taking away bargaining rights is fucked up and now they want to eliminate more jobs in Wisconsin and to be honest I would't put this past the state being pissed that they can't control the sovereign nations from hosting fights and know they almost got sued earlier this year for trying to do just that by suspending fighters from fighting on reservations under well run small syndicates. Theres a lot more to this then Wisconsin legislators want to admit to. So don't for one moment think it's not class warfare oh and remember the whole class warfare thing started at about the time they tried to take the bargaining rights. It's jsut easier to play it off like Obama's new economic policies were the first attack also not saying I agree with those Policies just saying..

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Stick to what little you know, Karma. All of those poor teachers will be in a much worse spot if the state were to go bankrupt, but why be an adult about something when you can just get more of that guv'ment money. It never runs out, right?

Hassium is right, this should be about the dumb bill, not left vs. right. I for one, am going to write a letter to Glenn Grothmann and explain what potential deregulation of MMA could lead to.

Come on Fist, I enjoy paying for state employees health care. It's only fair that we keep paying for their mandatory, contract-stipulated pay raises while we have our wages cut, benefits reduced, and 401K match removed.

Yes making people who already struggle, struggle furthermore is a huge issue with the GOP lately.

I work and live in Wisconsin. I would be considered lower-to-middle class. I work for a Milwaukee area company. I support Walker and see nothing wrong with his policies regarding bargaining rights and the unions. I was disappointed to see how Democrats played their game with that whole situation. I'm also disappointed to see Republicans trying to pass this into law. We will all disagree on these things. Personal politics shouldn't be the focus here. This is about MMA and this legislation - not Walker or unions, etc. I think we can all agree this legislation blows.

Oh yea I forgot. Trying to make overpaid government workers pay more for their benefits. What a crime against the middle class.

lol @ the children... LOL

Yes bitter

Did you forget the whole bargaining rights situation?

was that the state where the governor was going after the teachers and their union?

Can you please explain how Scott Walker is against the middle and lower class Karma.

It's not really a surprise considering the current Governor and his campaign against the middle class or anyone lower then that. Everyone wants to talk class warfare and thats exactly what this is they want to make sure that the middle class doesn't gain any ground in Wisconsin. It's just sad considering that MMA is growing so much in the state of Wisconsin it could someday be the Heartland of the sport if only certain Elected officials would take their heads out of their asses.

Who would've thought that a state with a football team named the Fudge-Packers would go and do something like this.