Trainers Speak Out on St. Pierre Greasing Controversy
(Props: CagePotato reader Chris R.)
BJ Penn's trainer Rudy Valentino to InsideFighting (via Fightlinker):
“To cheat to win is not honorable...Why need another edge? Our gameplan was on the ground, not striking because we knew Georges had good kicks. We planned to work off the back...[St. Pierre] was the better man but don’t cheat to win...
We just want to make sure it doesn’t happen again to someone else. It is not good for the sport. For their camp to be busted doing something bad like that, and then to keep doing it after the referee had warned them…I respect Greg Jackson but to do something like that, his integrity has been compromised.
[Greg Jackson] came to me and apologized for it, but to do it and then apologize after is a bit half hearted...[Penn's] legs slid right off because of the grease on his head and back. I’m not trying to make excuses for BJ’s loss…he took a lot of hits and St. Pierre was the better man that night but the extra cheating is bad for the sport.”
St. Pierre's trainer Greg Jackson claims the back-greasing was completely unintentional, and was actually the result of another bizarre Jackson camp ritual. As he told MMA Weekly:
"In between rounds, [team St. Pierre "witch doctor" Steven Friend] had this little drill that you do — and Phil Nurse is the one who knows how to do it —he showed Phil, and this is what Georges wanted, so we did that...He rubbed your back and tapped your chest; I don’t know exactly how it works. But anyways, what that’s supposed to do is get your energy in line, or motivated or whatever. So in between rounds, we had Phil Nurse do that.
The controversy came because Phil Nurse also was putting Vasoline on Georges’ eyebrows. In between rounds, you always want to put on Vasoline on (a fighter’s face). So Phil Nurse put all the Vasoline on his face, so his hands might have had a miniscule amount left over from that, when he went around the side and rubbed a little point on his back, and tapped on his chest.
At that point, somebody in the audience thought we were greasing George down, and ran over and told the commission that we were greasing his body down. The commission came in and said 'you can’t grease him down'...and Phil’s like, ‘oh, there might be a little on my fingers,' but it wasn’t intentional at all, and of course they wiped it right off and it was gone, so it wasn’t a factor in the fight at all...
If we were trying to grease the back we’d be greasing up and down, we would make it count. We wouldn’t do a little tiny spot in the back. The whole thing doesn’t make any sense, so they were fine with it once we gave our explanation. It wasn’t like we were taking gobs of Vasoline and slathering on his back...
The whole greasing thing is pretty ridiculous. You can’t grease somebody up. You just couldn’t do it. They check your body before you get into the cage, there’s an inspector right there. In order for us to grease him up, it would be insane. There are cameras everywhere. We don’t cheat. We don’t need to cheat to win.”
Previously: BJ Penn's Camp Files Formal Complaint Over Vaseline on St. Pierre's Back Between Rounds
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Comments
Anonymous Says:
If you notice at the first of the fight. GSP did that to himself. I saw it because I thought he was going to do the nipple twisting thing but he rubbed his chest and back instead.
Andrew Says:
I am not seeing how this could provide BJ Penn any advantage at all.
Andrew is a douche Says:
Erm, cos everytime BJ tried to get a high guard or a triangle on GSP his legs slipped straight back down his back
LoneWolf Says:
It doesn't it provides GSP with an advantage.
TUF Guy Says:
Andrew you just need to leave. You have no idea what the hell the situation is about. So just shut up and leave.
LoneWolf Says:
exactly!
Brown Badger Says:
Wow, that is so fucking obvious. Good gifs.
Anonymous Says:
I think Jackson's explanation is legit.
mayhem420 Says:
Andrew:
Its not giving BJ an advantage. It would have given GSP an advantage.
Penn's camp is saying that they were looking to work off his back so GSP being all greasy would prevent allot of subs like triangles and such.
Do I think that it effected the fight? No... GSP would have still won the fight. He was just dominating Penn.
agentsmith Says:
You can see right there in the pictures that the guy wasn't rubbing him anywhere near enough to be "greasing him up," whether intentional or not. Even if his hands had been covered in it, it would have only gotten on his collarbones/shoulders and a small patch in the centre of his back.
Kadumel Says:
Look we all know how it goes -
Fighter A dominates Fighter B, Fighter B and his team come up with some excuses, everyone that supports Fighter B latches on to this and uses it as the reason for the loss -
Arlovski - "He was dominating the fight up until Fedor turned his lights out..." Uh, ok...
Penn - "GSP was greasing himself up!" Riiight...
Anonymous Says:
But wait, in this little clip the show those guys in the red suits wiping his back down. Doesnt that just void the entire dispute? B.J didnt look like he wanted to be in there from the start. His striking was slow, oddly slow for B.J. George earned that win, dont take that away from the guy.
ruckus Says:
"We don’t need to cheat to win.”
Can't really argue with that statement.
Anonymous Says:
This is hillarious. Applying vaseline to a fighter's face and then massaging his shoulders has become "greasing him down"? I can't stop laughing. I've lost even more respect for BJ and his camp after this. As if quitting after round 4 (after all of the shit that was talked) isn't bad enough. Now they file an official complaint with the NSAC? Pathetic!
The Doug Says:
I miss the days where every loss was chalked up to the losing fighter being sick and having a "104-degree fever" the day of the fight. Those were simpler times.
agentsmith Says:
The Doug Says:
I miss the days where every loss was chalked up to the losing fighter being sick and having a "104-degree fever" the day of the fight. Those were simpler times.
==========
I'd actually take that as a valid excuse. Right from the start, BJ looked like he mentally didn't show up. Just say you're sick or your grandma died or some shit.
Hebrew Hammerfist Says:
As anyone who follows Muay Thai knows, Phil Nurse is very big on being traditional to the art. He believes in the method of massaging the muscles before and during the fight (just like traditional Thai fighters do) to increase blood flow.
I highly doubt it was done to "grease up" GSP to prevent any ground submissions from BJ's guard.
It was likely what Nurse is used to as a top Muay Thai trainer, following the traditional customs.
JPFighter Says:
This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. When I first heard about it, I immediately thought GSP's trainer must have done something terribly wrong. Then I watched the videos. They call THAT greasing? Give me a break. Perhaps then the Commission should penalize guys that sweat more than other fighters? Maybe wipe the fighters down every 60 seconds in the fight to make it fair? The Commission did the right thing by wiping him down as a precautionary measure (given that someone voiced a concern in between rounds). The situation was handled properly, the explanation by Greg Jackson is totally legit, let's move on. If I was BJ, I wouldn't want to make a big deal of this. BJ was beat fair and square. If BJ wanted a better shot at the fight, he should have trained harder. His cardio is NEVER where it should be, and this fight was no exception. If BJ does not intend to improve his cardio, he should either (a) fight like a madman (go for broke) in round 1 to go for a knockout, or (b) spend more time on training cardio. Simple. Sour grapes after a great fight like that is a shame.
Old, Bald and Irish Says:
I'll be honest: I really don't know if the "greasing" made a difference. If a good sized gob was placed on GSP's back, then yeah, after B.J.'s arms and legs got around GSP, it would have spread around his back. But then B.J. would have been all slippery too. But looking at the GIFs, and there may have been other times that this happened - not just these two, I don't think that the "grease" would have changed the outcome.
Was it careless? Yeah, I think so. Was there cheating? I don't think so, but here's the rub: This fight will always have a lil' "asterix" next to it in the mind of a lot of MMA fans. Some folks will argue that this was not a legitimate win for GSP. I don't subscribe to that thinking, but careless stuff like this takes away from GSP's excellent performance.
By the way, did anyone else think that the Penn/GSP fight looked strangely familiar to the GSP/Serra match? GSP's tactics, IMO, were very similar in both fights.
GSP may be the anti-jiujitsu!
Greased Pig Says:
I would think that, compared to sweat on GSP's hairless back, vaseline might offer slightly MORE friction, thus benefiting Penn.
Either way, Penn needs to stop bitching and appreciate the fact that he's still the dominant champ in his division--exactly where he belongs.
armfarmer Says:
Yeah BJ looked terrible, he gassed faster than he did the first time around. He was exhuasted a minute into round 2. I thought he might have been sick or hurt or something but guess not, he really is just that lazy and unprepared. I thought bj was going to pull the upset, boy did he make me look dumb.
Kadumel Says:
For someone with grease on his back, St. Pierre sure did punch BJ in the face alot.
Aj's gay lover Says:
CHEATER!!! Just all people from Canada! You have to cheat to win! Stay north of the border you fucking chode!
Goog Says:
Anonymous said it... even if they put half a jar on him, the commission came in and personally wiped it off to their satisfaction. Not an issue after that. But the whole thing is ridiculous. BJ got beat.
And what about the Vas they put on their faces? These guys push their faces onto the opponent's upper body all the time. Shouldn't that make them too "greased" to get a choke or triangle? Or how about they get it all over their gloves from hitting each other in the head? Now we have "greasy" gloves. One grabs the others wrist for control. "Greasy" wrists. This whole sport is suspect if you ask me.
[end sarcasm]
armfarmer Says:
"By the way, did anyone else think that the Penn/GSP fight looked strangely familiar to the GSP/Serra match? GSP's tactics, IMO, were very similar in both fights."
He faught his last 5 fights exactly the same way... that's just how he fights.
Deathb4tapout Says:
I think the problem is unintentional or not did it affect the fight? If it did then they should be fined bottom line. I thought George had a solid game plan from the start and it proved Penn should not be in that wieght class.
Now GSP vs The Spider would be a great fight imo.
Creamy CA Roll Says:
@ Hebrew Hammerfist
Vaseline is not a traditional Thai ointment. Tiger balm is applied before and after training to increase blood flow but not an anal lube. Vaseline is applied liberally on the face before fights with the excess wiped off.
Plus the real question is BJ's ineffective rubber guard in round 2, before NSAC officials toweled GSP off. Go watch earlier GSP fights and then this one and compare how much shinier his back is in this fight compared to those fights.
I'm not making excuses for BJ losing since GSP was clearly the better fighter on Saturday night, but this win is tainted IMO
Nimroo Says:
I get it. So if we grease up Richard Simmons' back and stick him in the cage with BJ, Simmons will destroy BJ like GSP did.
LukeTheDuke Says:
BJ Penn Nuthuggers need to get off this site, he lost. Like Jackson said, they werent lathering him up wit vaseline, there was some on the guys fingers...and it was wiped off anyways. So fuck y'all. You're all sore losers....just like BJ.
- Luke The Duke
bobcat Says:
im a bj fan before a gsp fan, but if you think gsp needed to cheat to win this fight you better take your head out of your ass and stop embarrassing yourself any further with ignorant comments. gsp dominated bj big time, he out-wresteled him, out-powered him and out-technique him. whether he got some vasoline on his back or not, had nothing to do with the outcome of this fight. bj is still thow the greatest lightweight fighter ever, and he should stay there and defend his title for a long time. there is a reason there r weight classes.
bad batz Says:
i accept jackson's explanation too. the jackson camp is in it to win it - but only honourably. if you read their remarks in any interview, that camp is about training hard, and not taking shit too seriously...i.e., enjoying the moment when in the octagon.
bj penn and his ilk need to STFU and make GSP a sandwich.
Renn Says:
No matter how the UFC Primetime show was edited, it showed BJ Penn not preparing for the fight. BJ has unbelievable natural talent. It can only carry him so far. BJ should have prepared better for this fight. Not only was he fighting one of the pound for pound best fighters in the world, but he was fighting someone who is naturally heavier and someone who beat him before. BJ Penn should have showed up better prepared.
This greasing stuff is all bull anyways. GSP is a hairless freak from what I can tell. Any fighter is covered in sweat by the time they finish their warm up before the fight. Put those two things together and you have no need to grease yourself down. You are already super slippery.
It just looks like the silver spoon fell out of BJ Penns mouth and he is crying.
Old, Bald and Irish Says:
@ armfarmer
Let me be more specific: I was really focusing on GSP's ground work and his ability to nuetralize his opponent.
Let's face it, his match against Fitch was a lot different; same outcome!
LukeTheDuke Says:
And don't give me no "his back is shiny" shit. Taste Defeat. Get off BJ's nuts.
-LTD
P.S. Fuck Y'all.
Jimbroni Says:
I looks like the guy in the red blazer wiped off GSP's back with a white towel. This is just a sad excuse if you ask me.
ithertz Says:
I have a pre-fight ritual that involves shooting steroids in my arm... it doesn't give me an advantage though ... its just a ritual
LukeTheDuke Says:
you must be in Brock's camp.
Old, Bald and Irish Says:
Ren said:
"No matter how the UFC Primetime show was edited, it showed BJ Penn not preparing for the fight. BJ has unbelievable natural talent. It can only carry him so far. BJ should have prepared better for this fight. Not only was he fighting one of the pound for pound best fighters in the world, but he was fighting someone who is naturally heavier and someone who beat him before. BJ Penn should have showed up better prepared."
I think you have a valid point, Renn. I think Penn needs to re-think himself and get outta Hawaii and go to a new training camp where different people will push him. I think he may be living in a "safety zone". He needs to bust outta that. GSP seems to be willing to go aywhere and do anything to excel. it's paying off and there is no denying his explosive growth as a fighter. BJ can, and should, do the same thing. BJ can go to the next level. He CAN be even more awesome.
Jimbroni Says:
BJ can still become a legend. He just needs to stay in his own weight class. He's dominate forever...or until he decides to leave...again.
ithertz Says:
how many douchetards in here have tried to get a greased up guy in their guard? oh wait, none. eat a bag of dicks.
LukeTheDuke Says:
BJ should go to Colorado and train in altitude to help his horrible cardio.
Sickos Says:
Hahaha, this is pathetic... The "greasing" on GSP's back did not prevent BJ from failing at any submissions. I believe it was the "windshield wiper" elbows on BJ's face and repeated hammer fists to his ears everytime he'd think about using some Jits on GSP that actually prevented them..
GSP is the shit....
@ithertz Says:
I have, it sucks, but its sweat that plays a major role in that...not vaseline. GSP was not greasing, you are the dickbag eater.
Kevbo Says:
Typical for a fighter like BJ and his camp to do this bullshit. Wonder if they could say anything about the other dozen awesome fighters that GJ trains. Greg is the best trainer out there and he certainly does not need to "cheat".
F'n Clownshoes Says:
Clay Guida spent half of the fight w/ his greasy head on Diaz's back. Is that why Diaz couldn't get a Triangle or Omaplata? Every time a fighter hits a dude in the head and then clinches or try's a takedown they are putting grease on each other. I thought BJ was going to win this fight. (i know fucking smart right?) He was outperformed in every facet of the game. All the haters need to deal or get a hobby or douche yourselves. IMO
don frye's moustache Says:
"But anyways, what that’s supposed to do is get your energy in line, or motivated or whatever."
oh ok, thanks greg for the scientific breakdown of how gsp likes to be felt up between rounds. we truly appreciate it.
betterthanyou Says:
Yeah he cheated I am sure of it............check him for riods too GSP is a fag we all know it hes not that good really he didnt beat serra and I dont think he can Beat Penn FAIR he cheated He always looks too strong in his fights like hes got an unfair strength advantage and I am sure he does ROIDS for sure
Uh and a the UFC ring girls said hes a major fruit
Anonymous Says:
BJ Penn lost that fight, is going to lose that fight, and always loses that fight.
THAT's what makes this so irritating. GSP's corner still did some illegal tactics.
If you can't see that there is still no way Penn wins that fight... you're a BJ hugger.
If you can't see that there is no excuse for GSP's corner to do that and it was in fact illegal.... you're a GSP hugger.
I'm in the middle... Penn loses that fight no matter what 100 out of 100 times... and GSP cheated. That's why this is so frustrating for the unbiased observer.
armfarmer Says:
The vaseline probably didn't help especially with the highgaurd/rubbergaurd bj was trying to use, but I doubt it was a major factor. I put money on BJ and I was calling the upset and people may even accuse me of being a BJ fanboy or whatever, but he lost that fight because he has piss poor cardio. He couldn't finish the 2nd round without being exhausted. I made the mistake of assuming he fixed that issue or at least improved it but it looks like it just got worse. He did fine the first round and if he'd kept up that way he may have won, but 6 minutes into the fight he was done for. No one to blame but you BJ, you made an ass out of all of us saturday night.
imrandy Says:
Now if they were to grease up Matt Hamill we'd have a Family Guy episode. "Nyah nyah you can't catch me!"
Anyone remember back when fighters use to glob Vaseline behind their ears?